5480-5974
5310-5785 subjects 5658-6027
^ InstallShield version for Ruby soon...
5480 [andy toolshe] Okay folks,
+ 5491 [fit0298 fite] Congratulation.
| 5506 [andy toolshe] Sadly, the only languages I know other than English are all computer
+ 5529 [schneiker ju] Are you accepting donations? I'll happily contribute 50% of the cost of
| 5530 [Dave thomase] That's very kind, but we've got it covered this time. However, could
+ 5694 [wy2lam under] Hey, why use InstallShield, if you can use InnoSetup, which is free?
| 5699 [Dave thomase] We thought long and hard about this.
| 5723 [wy2lam under] Ok, point taken and agreed. I pointed that out just because I think InnoSetup
+ 5708 [aschneiderma] I'm really glad you're doing this.
5725 [andy toolshe] One click will be it.
^ Perl5 news: Package "Bit::Vector" Version 6.0
5484 [schneik us.i] Some time ago there was some discussion about bit vectors. Perhaps someone
^ Regexp#matches
5489 [aleksi.nieme] Would someone object aliasing matches for match in Regexp?
+ 5490 [hal9000 hype] not
+ 5493 [matz zetabit] Well, I personally use plain form of nouns for method names, for
5557 [matju cam.or] Yippee... a 100% OO COBOL
5559 [rett gvtc.co] matz,
+ 5560 [Dave thomase] Flame bait, folks, ignore it.
| 5571 [schneik us.i] #
| 5602 [charleshixsn] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
| 5611 [aleksi.nieme] Me too. As an initiator of this thread :).
| 5624 [matz zetabit] Not much. Direct C function is little bit faster though (probably
+ 5599 [hal9000 hype] Well, flame bait or not, I'll venture a comment. This response is
5598 [charleshixsn] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
^ Sorry, What is Ruby Book
5505 [chioque pd.j] Sorry if this information is somewhere obvious. I just stumbled upon
+ 5508 [jon kanji.co] pages) (ISBN4-7561-3254-5) about Ruby that was first published by
| 5512 [jon kanji.co] ASCII Nov 11, 1999 -> Nov 1, 1999.
+ 5509 [Dave thomase] 1. Programming Ruby (Addison-Wesley Pub Co; ISBN: 0201710897)
5944 [kentda stud.] I ran of to the bookstore on campus, and asked when it would show up.
+ 5946 [Dave thomase] Amazon.co.uk is currently showing January--no idea why.
+ 5951 [Gabriel.Lima] I pre-ordered "Programming Ruby", from amazon.co.uk, but the days passed,
| 5952 [Dave thomase] I asked Addison-Wesley about this, and they expressed some
+ 5966 [mulperi iki.] I got my Programming ruby from http://www.fatbrain.com. Last tuesday
5974 [huber mclx.c] thanks for the tip. I canceled my order at b&n, and ordered it from
^ RubyCentral
5520 [Dave thomase] Just a note to say that www.rubycentral.com is now the "official"
5521 [schneik us.i] # Just a note to say that www.rubycentral.com is now the "official"
5522 [Dave thomase] I try. I really try.
^ class messages in Ruby
5526 [faatdilac my] Are there class messages in Ruby and are they inheritable?
5527 [Dave thomase] Yes and no.
^ RUBY NEWSGROUP FAQ -- Welcome to comp.lang.ruby! (Revised 2000-10-14)
5528 [schneiker ju] RUBY NEWSGROUP FAQ -- Welcome to comp.lang.ruby! (Revised 2000-10-14)
^ Re: Some newbye question -- involving block scoping.
5538 [schneiker ju] declaration-less
5540 [cle qiao.loc] Hmmm ... although I was following this thread too, I really cannot see what
^ ruby 1.6 logo update and font(s)
5539 [gnhurst hurs] I am working on a new website for ruby, and would be interested,
5550 [matz zetabit] Which font? Version numbers are in something like `nimbus roman no9 l'.
^ class variables as symbols
5542 [gnhurst hurs] I figured that since all other identifier names
5551 [matz zetabit] Right. Done. I'll commit it soon.
^ local variables (nested, in-block, parameters, etc.)
5552 [matz zetabit] OK, I changed the subject. Feel free to change it again if you think
+ 5553 [Dave thomase] If we went with the {<i> ..} thing, then would we need anything
| 5567 [matz zetabit] Conceptually, yes. But I think there may be a room for better
| 5576 [Dave thomase] Seems like the best of both worlds (except you'd probably need a
| + 5577 [matz zetabit] Hmm, I thought I could ignore the case, but I can accept the demand.
| | 5578 [schneik us.i] #
| | 5583 [Dave thomase] Yup, that's much better
| | 5584 [decoux moulo] Perhaps (and certainly :-)) I'm stupid but why it make ruby more
| | + 5589 [matz zetabit] Your patch makes it 17 lines bigger ;-)
| | + 5590 [marchign di.] I think the problem is not what ruby is missing but rather what it gives
| | + 5591 [decoux moulo] Just wait some times (2 or 3 years) and if nobody use the syntax |a, b|
| | | 5597 [marchign di.] Yes I think this also is a nice solution. In this case, however, one has
| | | 5609 [schneik us.i] # Sorry, the message is long also this time.
| | + 5595 [matz zetabit] Well, Ruby is far younger than FORTRAN, and you may have found it
| | 5627 [cle qiao.loc] Sorry matz, but could you show me a simple example where such a construct is
| | 5628 [matz zetabit] i = nil
| | 5633 [cle qiao.loc] Thank you for this! Now I am convinced I have never used this :-) Another
| | 5647 [schneik us.i] construct is
| + 5617 [green FreeBS] I really, really dislike this discussion (please hear me out). This syntax
| 5626 [matz zetabit] * all block parameters should be local to the block
| + 5648 [charleshixsn] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
| | 5654 [hal9000 hype] different local
| | 5676 [charleshixsn] Ogh. Yes! OTOH, I know that I don't really understand the evaluated symbol
| | 5679 [hal9000 hype] See below...
| | 5689 [charleshixsn] So it looks like <i>for</i> acts in all sorts of unexpected ways if you
| + 5655 [matju cam.or] x = [1,2,3].find {|i| condition i }
| + 5656 [schneik us.i] #
| | + 5657 [decoux moulo] It depend how you interpret |i|
| | | 5659 [schneik us.i] # >>>>> "C" == Conrad Schneiker/Austin/Contr/IBM <schneik@us.ibm.com>
| | | + 5660 [decoux moulo] This is a difference between 1.4 and 1.6
| | | + 5683 [matz zetabit] I understand your idea, altough `(a),b' is a valid lhs, so that
| | | 5685 [schneik us.i] Matz writes,
| | | 5686 [gnhurst hurs] { |x,y| <a,b> ..... }
| | + 5662 [matz zetabit] Not yet.
| + 5661 [matz zetabit] Well, it's definitely concise and better.
| + 5663 [hgs dmu.ac.u] If this is made clear in the manual -- that *no* new scope is introduced
| | + 5666 [decoux moulo] If you look in ruby-man you'll see that 'for' is defined in 'Ruby syntax'
| | | 5668 [hgs dmu.ac.u] The above text I quoted was from ruby-man-1.4/syntax.html#for
| | | 5669 [decoux moulo] I don't think that the author of the manual can confuse the two :-)
| | | 5673 [hgs dmu.ac.u] Then 'for' simply isn't syntactic sugar for the braces or for the
| | | + 5674 [decoux moulo] Difficult to explain because I don't speak english, it's better if you
| | | | 5675 [hgs dmu.ac.u] That's what I meant by "differently" :-) This confirms that I understand
| | | + 5681 [matz zetabit] Agreed; We should really work on poor documentation.
| | + 5682 [matz zetabit] Well, it's clearly stated in the Japanese materials. And IIRC, in the
| + 5667 [matju cam.or] Like I've previously said, I've never used the for-loop. I use .each{}
+ 5555 [cle qiao.loc] Hmmm ... What do you think about the following? Valid expressions between
| + 5564 [schneik us.i] #
| | 5565 [schneik us.i] <many lines of discussion snipped>
| | 5569 [matz zetabit] You made me feel easy. Thank you.
| + 5568 [matz zetabit] Hmm, changes seems minimal, but I feel symbols as lvalues are less
| 5592 [gnhurst hurs] Perhaps my previous post [5548] got lost (or maybe it was too pitiful to answer?),
| 5594 [matz zetabit] No. I liked the concept but was not satisfied with the appearance.
| + 5596 [gnhurst hurs] Ok, I can appreciate that.
| | 5612 [hal9000 hype] OK, my two cents' worth. What is that in yen? :)
| + 5615 [aseltine cs.] And that emphasis also leads to Ruby's elegance. A joy to work with. Thanks
| 5616 [ms iastate.e] Absolutely, that emphasis is well placed. Matz has been doing a great
+ 5789 [gnhurst hurs] I thought very long about this issue (partly for the challenge), and although
| 5793 [matz zetabit] Thank you for the problem analysis.
| + 5796 [Dave thomase] All variables, or just those mentioned after the semicolon? If it's
| | 5797 [matz zetabit] All variables. The part after semicolon will not be lhs. Probably
| | + 5803 [Dave thomase] But then what is the meaning of the stuff after the ';'? If local
| | | 5805 [matz zetabit] I'm thinking of avoiding name conflict. See [ruby-talk:5804].
| | + 5804 [decoux moulo] d = 12
| + 5799 [gnhurst hurs] Thanks for reading it ;-)
| | 5811 [matz zetabit] I would make this an error.
| + 5800 [decoux moulo] This don't create a 'let'. The construct c=c *with* the do() create a
| | + 5801 [gnhurst hurs] Could you please explain why performing a 'let' is important or
| | + 5802 [decoux moulo] To create a block where you are sure that all variables listed in the do()
| + 5818 [decoux moulo] It break some closure, for example in test.rb
| + 5819 [matz zetabit] I'm thinking of adding a new rule that the scope of a new block
| | + 5820 [jsmall laser] this seems consistent if you think of block parameters as well as block
| | + 5823 [decoux moulo] Just try it :-)
| | 5824 [jsmall laser] You're right! Sorry!
| | 5826 [schneik us.i] # I don't know enough yet about the Ruby internals to understand
| | 5827 [aleksi.nieme] And it would not hurt (Conrad either) to trim down the part you're really
| | 5829 [schneik us.i] #
| + 5821 [decoux moulo] How do you do this ?
| + 5822 [jsmall laser] I don't know enough yet about the Ruby internals to understand
| + 5832 [matz zetabit] I think it requires interpreter rewrite. But it's OK, since I'm going
| + 5835 [matju cam.or] Why there is a need for a distinction between "local" and "dynamic"
| 5837 [matz zetabit] No need. "dynamic" is a term used by Ruby internal
| + 5838 [decoux moulo] if (ruby_scope->local_vars == 0) {
| + 5861 [matju cam.or] Recently declared "dynamic" variables are faster than early dynamics,
| + 5866 [decoux moulo] It's normal when you see the algorithm :-)
| + 5867 [matz zetabit] Plain "local" variables are accessed via arrays; The original
+ 5791 [decoux moulo] The scope of a variable is determined at *compile time*
+ 5792 [matz zetabit] Yes, to preserve in-block vars requires a lot of works.
+ 5794 [gnhurst hurs] I admit I am mainly focusing on programmer interface, not
+ 5795 [decoux moulo] pigeon% cat b.rb
+ 5809 [gnhurst hurs] I am *very* interested, but cannot find this file ...
+ 5810 [decoux moulo] Don't search the documentation :-)
^ Problem with pack on 64-bit machines
5554 [wknaka pobox] I think I've found a problem with ruby 1.6.1 (non-cvs) Array#pack when
5561 [matz zetabit] Thank you. I found two bugs.
5629 [wknaka pobox] Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be working yet. It looks like the
5630 [matz zetabit] Oh, I made stupid mistake. Thank you.
^ GC: malloc_memories
5558 [matju cam.or] Hum, I'm sorry for not reposting my GC performance patch. I'm currently
5562 [matz zetabit] malloc_memories is to retrieve additional, inexact information about
5563 [matju cam.or] ok, malloc_memories is going to the trashcan. I'll put a counter that's
5566 [matz zetabit] I agree with throwing malloc_memories to the trashcan. But I don't
5572 [matju cam.or] Well, no, because free list exhaustion only says something about the total
+ 5573 [hipster xs4a] This piece of work by Boehm and Demers could be of value in this
+ 5574 [matz zetabit] Well, I agree with your idea. But I can't just tell whether it is
| 5593 [gnhurst hurs] I think that is wonderful :-)
| 5618 [matz zetabit] Well, I've just realized a simple fact that a grant is not a free money.
| 5688 [matz zetabit] Try mito12-kobo at ipa dot go dot jp.
+ 5575 [hipster xs4a] A search for (generational) garbage collection on
^ Notes about GC
5570 [matju cam.or] about Ruby's GC. I thought I'd integrate them to gc.c, but I'm changing
^ Re: Flame-bait and this is private post
5579 [matz zetabit] I feel it's appropriate to talk about this topic in the list, unless
5623 [rett gvtc.co] Mr. Matsumoto,
^ Proposal: File.tmpfile
5580 [feldt ce.cha] Why not add File.tmpfile(aModeString="w") to the standard lib so that one
5581 [matz zetabit] Does
5582 [feldt ce.cha] Yes, thank you (as always it's already there!) Sorry for missing this; I
^ Ruby Book, Eng. tl, 5.1 -- OMT method ?
5585 [jon kanji.co] [ Object-Oriented Analysis (OOA) and Object-Oriented Design (OOD) are
5586 [aleksi.nieme] OMT (Object Modeling Technique; Rumbaugh et al.)
5587 [jon kanji.co] Got it. Thanks, Aleksi.
5588 [aleksi.nieme] Dang I shouldn't hurry.
^ passing single or multiple strings.
5600 [hgs dmu.ac.u] With multple assignments I can get nested arrays "shelled" (like peas)
5607 [gotoken math] `type' is not needed because `Klass === obj' is identical to
5634 [hgs dmu.ac.u] Oh! Thank you for this. :-)
+ 5636 [aleksi.nieme] Well, there's no such construct as plain *x. But there are constructs for
| 5638 [hgs dmu.ac.u] OK, I will have another look at that.
+ 5646 [gotoken math] I would beg apologies for my answer not suitable :<
5664 [hgs dmu.ac.u] OK, but I am beginning to think there should be a method for this.
5671 [gotoken math] To realize such mechanism, theoretically, an argument list should be
^ Small contributions
5601 [hal9000 hype] Well, over the last year or so, I have asked a ton of
^ debug command list in English
5603 [ChrisM SNELL] I found this page which lists the interactive debugger commands ... anyone
+ 5604 [aleksi.nieme] Yup, I know. I "translated" it some time ago. Anyway, it's pretty much the
| 5606 [rubikitch ru] The original documentation was written in RD.
+ 5605 [rubikitch ru] I started the Ruby Documentation Project, in which I collects documentations of
| 5608 [rubikitch ru] s/started/have started/
+ 5701 [nakahiro sar] I don't know a reference in English except the help message
^ irb docs
5610 [ChrisM SNELL] (Sorry for the newbie noise) --
^ [RRFC] versioning revisited
5613 [hipster xs4a] [Ruby Request For Comments]
+ 5614 [aleksi.nieme] Good work hipster. I especially like the format you present your ideas.
+ 5620 [Dave thomase] To make this more orthogonal, how about generalizing the context. Add
| 5625 [matz zetabit] Are you going to make require a keyword?
+ 5621 [VardhanVarma] [RRFC] versioning revisited
^ lint?
5619 [swit spam.co] Is there something like lint for Ruby? I'd like to find NameErrors before
5622 [matz zetabit] I'm afraid it requires static type information, which Ruby does not have.
5631 [fgeiger date] Does it really? What about typos? E.g. someone "defines" a param
+ 5632 [matz zetabit] For typos, `ruby -w' may help. But Ruby is really a dynamic language.
| 5639 [swit spam.co] Yes, a typo is exactly what I was originally asking about, especially in
| 5640 [hgs dmu.ac.u] But you will have tested it with RubyUnit by then.... :-) My docs for it
| 5641 [aleksi.nieme] Very nice docs!
| + 5642 [aleksi.nieme] lint type tool could be nice anyway. But I imagine the tool have to have
| | + 5644 [hgs dmu.ac.u] ISTR that Perl does it by seeing you have only used a variable name once.
| | + 5650 [charleshixsn] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
| | 5651 [Callus Sympa] Mr. H., can you turn the vcf thing off? It's annoying.
| + 5643 [hgs dmu.ac.u] Thank you.
+ 5635 [marchign di.] I love typed languages, unfortunately the trend in last years (for
5649 [charleshixsn] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
^ Ruby Book, Eng. tl, 5.2.4 -- shitauke methods ?
5637 [jon kanji.co] What is the accepted word for 'shitauke methods' in English?
5645 [matz zetabit] Well, my intention was to describe methods not to be called from
^ Array#insert
5652 [aleksi.nieme] I was looking up how Array#insert should be called. Uh, there's none! Maybe
5653 [gotoken math] How about this?
5690 [aleksi.nieme] I like it. So here's a (equivalent?) patch which produces
5692 [gnhurst hurs] I don't like this because it implies there is no way
5696 [ms iastate.e] Right.
+ 5697 [gnhurst hurs] I don't think it muddies the semantics at all.
+ 5700 [jweirich one] Don't think of it as "insert before" or "insert after". Think of it
5716 [aleksi.nieme] Very good discussion. Guy's right about better semantics, Mark about real
+ 5718 [gnhurst hurs] I think that is an excellent idea.
| 5720 [aleksi.nieme] Good point, I should have included it for the sake of completeness.
+ 5721 [ms iastate.e] Being entirely satisfied with Jim's "insert at" explanation, I withdraw
+ 5736 [matz zetabit] You're right. Did you scan my brain lately?
5743 [mslagell ias] Only for the programmers that use the destructive methods. :-)
5753 [matz zetabit] Yes, but destructiveness is not bad in general, especially in
5756 [mslagell ias] Sure, that I agree with. Otherwise I'd be a Lisp devotee I suppose, and
+ 5757 [aleksi.nieme] Well, I tried at least :). First the power my poor home-made machinery
| 5761 [ms iastate.e] This rule can be augmented in a way that makes everybody happy, even me,
| 5764 [aleksi.nieme] Nope, it was me who misunderstood. Yup, what you say makes much sense.
| + 5767 [ms iastate.e] Yes, but I guess I don't think it has much to do with the method name
| + 5768 [matju cam.or] @theArray[@index,0] = anArray
| 5774 [schneik us.i] # Sigh. I hadn't thought of how an underscore blends in with the
| 5786 [ms iastate.e] Hmmm....
+ 5777 [matz zetabit] I don't call that languages with incredable amount of parenthesises
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