3410-4100 subjects 3801-4145

[Patch] Trace in debugger
3635 [nahi@ke na t] Today I used Ruby-1.5 debugger after a long time, and I found 'list'

Perl and Ruby: an Irony
3645 [thucdat@ho m] I am rewriting a Perl program in Ruby to see the difference.
+ 3652 [schneik@au t] No, this is an example of (1) the fallacy of generalizing from one data point
+ 3653 [yashi@ya hi ] just my two cents
  3654 [thucdat@ho m] The trouble is sometimes I have to fish some fields in the middle of the
  3655 [yashi@ya hi ] line = 'my_service foo yashi 25 bar $1,000,000,000,000' # ;p
  3656 [thucdat@ho m] That's it, bravo. Your salary is not 2 cents at all.
  3659 [c.hintze@gm ] Dat,
  + 3660 [thucdat@ho m] Clement,
  | 3674 [c.hintze@gm ] Dat,
  | 3678 [schneik@au t] Well, don't be too critical of your English.
  + 3661 [hfulton@au t] This is slightly amusing.
    3675 [c.hintze@gm ] Yeah! For you who has not done such crab, as I've done!!! :-(

Ruby 1.4.5 repacked
3647 [matz@ru y- a] md5sum is
3649 [thucdat@ho m] adm4cps:spsy$ make
3650 [schneik@au t] Given that you are apparently the only one so far who has problems with this,
3671 [schneik@us i] # >
3672 [Jan.Matejka@] date 	06.26,

Ruby/Tk questions (docs, widget, usage)
3657 [schneik@au t] ruby-1.4.5/ext/tcltklib/README.euc?

Components and Objects and Ruby (long post, partly OT)
3658 [schneiker@ju] I wanted to draw your attention to an article that I have included below,

Ruby 1.4.5 install from Mandrake cooker rpms ?problem?
3662 [charleshixsn] This is the first time that I've installed ruby, so
3663 [pixel@ma dr ] you installed the binary rpm did you?
3664 [yashi@ya hi ] what version was it?  i've been using -O6 and -mpentium with gcc
3669 [pixel@ma dr ] starting with 1.4.4

Ruby 1.4.5 bug
3667 [fenghou@er l] Compiled ruby 1.4.5 source on Redhat Linux (intel).  Got
3668 [matz@ne la .] Katsuyuki Komatsu <komatsu@sarion.co.jp> found and fixed the bug

Ruby in Italy -- Unknown
3670 [jilanik@ti .] Here in Italy, Ruby is absolutely uknown, even among Linux comunity and script

-  Learn how to SPEED UP your INTERNET connection by 70-100% for FREE!
3676 [tbymwp@sp ed] Hey,

sending output to a file or to tee.
3679 [hgs@dm .a .u] I have a rather large ruby program, too large to post. When I run it the
3700 [Dave@th ma e] Is your large program long-running, and are you waiting for the output
3724 [hgs@dm .a .u] That must be it.  I have not done anything to alter the buffering

protocol.rb http.rb 1.1.24
3681 [aamine@dp u-] {protocol,http}.rb 1.1.24 was checked in.

no traffic
3685 [matz@ne la .] I haven't got any trafic for 2 days in the list/newsgroup.
+ 3686 [nosuzuki@e- ] In my gateway programs' log file, I have recieved some messages from ML
| 3688 [matz@ne la .] No, I checked.  The Japanese mailing list - ruby-list had file crash
| 3689 [hipster@xs a] Your `no-traffic' message is the first I receive since 3681, so there's
| 3690 [matz@ne la .] You can check the dropped mails at
| 3691 [matz@ne la .] And I have to mention the great summarizing feature of this site.
+ 3687 [schneik@au t] Most unusual, but I think things will pick up this time next week again.

3692 [DDouthitt@cu] Seems awfully quiet....
3693 [hipster@xs a] Matz mentioned some troubles with the list server. Some articles weren't

Why it's quiet
3694 [hal9000@hy e] We are all busy learning the new language
3703 [nahi@ke na t] Yes!
+ 3705 [matz@ne la .] I'm not sure for the rest, but these are the features of Ruby, aren't they?
| 3707 [nahi@ke na t] Yes, I think so, too.  I might confuse you.
+ 3722 [charleshixsn] ...
  3734 [schneik@au t] Well, I think OS-dependent features for very widely used OS's are a good
  3735 [Dave@th ma e] Again, this comes back to the ease of acquiring and installing these

Method question
3695 [charleshixsn] ...
3696 [hal9000@hy e] Others, e.g. Matz, can answer this better, but this is
3698 [matz@ne la .] Your answer is awesome.

Caller's class or object
3697 [hal9000@hy e] OK, here's a question.
3702 [matz@ne la .] No, there's no way to retrieve where a method is defined, even current

Multithreaded/Embedded Ruby?
3699 [embed@NO PA ] Is there any information on Thread safety in ruby. Suppose I embed Ruby in a
3701 [matz@ne la .] Ruby is currently NOT thread safe.  Ruby/Java, for example, handles
3704 [hotaka@me ia] This is from Hotaka@TUT
3706 [matz@ne la .] Yes, you may, Watson. ;-)
3708 [hotaka@me ia] This is from Hotaka@TUT
+ 3710 [matz@ne la .] I guess something is thread safe, if and only if it's safe in ANY condition.
| 3870 [embed@NO PA ] (or possesed by)
| + 3872 [aleksi.nieme] No it's not as an interpreter, a program. You can't make multithreaded C
| | 3879 [matz@ne la .] I doubt it.  Ruby's conservative GC may be fooled by objects
| + 3880 [matz@ne la .] The answers are: not yet; no; yes.
+ 3738 [db3l@fi li x] One thing to be cautious of is that thread-safety is often not just a

cvs access problems on AIX
3709 [schneik@au t] "On AIX systems, the system will often have its own program trying to
3711 [matz@ne la .] Let me consider making nightly snapshot, without warrancy.
3716 [schneik@au t] Thanks. Even a weekly snapshot would be great.

Re: Why it's quiet -- Ruby features.
3712 [schneik@au t] Isn't this a Ruby application? I didn't think that this was a fully-supported
+ 3713 [matz@ne la .] It's a full featured Ruby to C translator, still in experimental phase
+ 3714 [nahi@ke na t] No, rb2c is not a Ruby application.
  3717 [schneik@au t] Any chance that Ruby 1.6+ will have a built-in standard multidimensional array?
  + 3720 [Dave@th ma e] Apart from performance, are there any advantages to building this in,
  + 3721 [decoux@mo lo] Another reason is that if you look at GSL, you'll see that this library

re: Your pallet service
3715 [Marie_Cook@f] ___________________________________________________________
3718 [aleksi.nieme] I think Marie Cook has misunderstood the role of this list. I think we've
3726 [hfulton@au t] My guess would be that this person posted to the newsgroup,
3730 [matz@ne la .] I guess it was the list that had ATTACKed.  She(?) posted to the

Clearer parsing
3719 [aleksi.nieme] class Example
3725 [matz@ne la .] This is much nicer to the programmers.  I like being nice to them,

Possible parsing inconsistency
3723 [Dave@th ma e] I'm writing test cases for line continuations (boy, what an exciting
3727 [matz@ne la .] Well,
3728 [Dave@th ma e] ;-)
3732 [matz@ne la .] Well, I'm kinda embarrassing to tell you that 5 minutes after I sent

Re: Why it's quiet -- Ruby features -- Arrays
3729 [schneik@au t] Apart from performance, is there any advantage to flying 1,000+ miles
+ 3731 [matz@ne la .] In summary, it's quite possible that future distibution includes
| 3748 [schneiker@ju] Arrays"
| 3753 [matz@ne la .] I doubt it.  The reason is that there's no de facto multidimensional
| 3810 [schneiker@ju] If NArray were completed and supported, would you recommend any changes to
| 3815 [matz@ne la .] Friend, don't ever ask me about mathematical issue. ;-)
+ 3733 [Dave@th ma e] I'd certainly go along with you here - adding useful functionality

Eiffel adds agents
3736 [Dave@th ma e] Bertrand Meyer has a chapter from the new version of "Eiffel: The

Re: Why it's quiet -- standard distribution issues
3737 [schneik@au t] Well, up to a point. That would certainly help in many cases, but there are
3739 [Dave@th ma e] Today maybe. Next year, I suspect the opposite will be true.
+ 3741 [aleksi.nieme] I think it's the feature of the mailing list archive to create a threads of
| 3749 [schneiker@ju] of
+ 3747 [schneiker@ju] be
  3751 [Dave@th ma e] I've got an idea! (OK - it had to happen sooner or later).
  3812 [schneiker@ju] for
  3814 [Dave@th ma e] Because the stuff you're talking about is to some extent currently

3740 [ilnodo@il od] www.ilnodo.it

Re: Ubiquitous Ruby
3742 [Dave@th ma e] Just a couple of points.
+ 3750 [schneiker@ju] Famous last words. :-)
| 3752 [Dave@th ma e] Agreed. Now demonstrate why your dog is any more real than my tail.[1]
| 3811 [schneiker@ju] This may make more sense if you start reading from somewhere about 2/3rds
+ 3754 [hgs@dm .a .u] Erlang looks good in this regard, but I have not got into it yet.
+ 3799 [ino-waiting@] not neccessarily.  standard pgp-encryption would suffice, it's the
  + 3800 [aleksi.nieme] Well, this sounds nice! Ruby (community) would be the first providing, as an
  + 3802 [Dave@th ma e] Isn't that vulnerable to man-in-the-middle, though? I'm not an expert
    3803 [aleksi.nieme] Yes it is. Look my mail [ruby-talk:3800]. If there're some man-in-the-middle

CGI module and form fields values
3743 [jilanik@ti .] 1- textbox (name)
3744 [Dave@th ma e] A hash is not ordered, so you won't be able to have 'each' return the
3745 [aleksi.nieme] Moreover, I'm not sure RFC for HTTP (1949 if I recall correctly) requires

XMP on comments
3755 [aleksi.nieme] require "xmp"
3756 [aleksi.nieme] xmp = "can't handle comments"

Socket error reporting
3757 [aleksi.nieme] ruby -rsocket -e 's = TCPsocket.open("foobar.com", 80)'
3769 [matz@ne la .] Why `Unknown error'?  Anyway I'll apply your patch.
3770 [aleksi.nieme] I didn't dive into the problem more than that and I don't know what

Array.uniq! returning nil
3758 [aleksi.nieme] Why Array.uniq! returns nil if it doesn't do anything (every element
3768 [matz@ne la .] Ruby 1.5.x do the magic for you.  Non bang methods don't copy memory
3771 [aleksi.nieme] That's good. *Waiting eagerly* :). But even then I guess
3777 [matz@ne la .] Hmm, how about this?
3778 [aleksi.nieme] Well, I appreciate your try. This is yet another nice trick to keep in mind.
+ 3785 [matz@ne la .] It's the only effective way to know if modification is done.
+ 3794 [nahi@ke na t] As matz said in [ruby-talk:3785] and Dave said in [ruby-talk:1229],
  3795 [aleksi.nieme] These and your example was exactly what I was looking for! Thank you.
  + 3796 [hgs@dm .a .u] Is this a more idiomatic solution?
  + 3825 [nahi@ke na t] You are welcome.
    3842 [matz@ne la .] Hmm, I thought I (we) came to the negative conclusion.
    + 3844 [hgs@dm .a .u] I read this as suggesting test before substituting, but I'm not
    | 3845 [aleksi.nieme] I have to think about those before I answer.
    | 3853 [matz@ne la .] "Conditions" may have side effect.  Have you ever seen a code like
    + 3851 [nahi@ke na t] Thank you for your comment.
      3852 [matz@ne la .] Didn't I raise objection?  Well, perhaps I forgot to say my opinion.
      3862 [schneiker@ju] "Yukihiro Matsumoto" writes,
      + 3863 [hgs@dm .a .u] How much code would break by having an optional third argument, defaulting
      | 3866 [aleksi.nieme] This might be good idea. However I'd like to have a field in String which
      | 3868 [hgs@dm .a .u] that default '=nil' preserves current behaviour.
      + 3878 [matz@ne la .] Other noise characters?  Come on. ;-)
        + 3882 [aleksi.nieme] Right! No more unnecessary noise!
        | 3890 [matz@ne la .] Well, modifying may cause confusion.  For example,
        | 3893 [hgs@dm .a .u] Thank you.  One more might be a new operator.  I don't know
        | 3896 [hfulton@au t] That's a very interesting idea, Hugh. But how does
        | + 3907 [matz@ne la .] Hmm, by returning a special object that responds to any message and
        | | 3931 [aleksi.nieme] Don't get me wrong here. I've understood your point, but I just want to make
        | | 3961 [matz@ne la .] Like bang sign for Scheme language, right?
        | | 3964 [jo@to la d. ] [ Yukihiro Matsumoto ]
        | | 3992 [matz@ne la .] The reason is, as a totally object-oriented language, Ruby has too
        | | 4004 [aleksi.nieme] I like your view here! I think you're quite correct. First bang-methods were
        | | 4024 [matz@ne la .] Actually, it is mainly a historical reason.
        | + 3932 [hgs@dm .a .u] Our mail has been dead for a few days...
        + 3888 [nahi@ke na t] Matz, at first, I have to say that I have ever seen this

Ruby-man-1.4 needs default values
3759 [aleksi.nieme] The ruby-man-1.4 predefined variables and constants doesn't include the
3767 [matz@ne la .] I'll add them in the near future.
3822 [matz@ne la .] $. does have alternative ARGF.lineno, but it's a alternative for

3760 [aleksi.nieme] class Range
+ 3762 [decoux@mo lo] this is
+ 3763 [Dave@th ma e] .to_a does this too...
  3764 [aleksi.nieme] How come I happen to expect the dot binding the parts together before the

Emacs indentation
3761 [aleksi.nieme] def emacs
3784 [matz@ne la .] This patch may help.

modulo and remainder
3766 [Dave@th ma e] In the latest CVS, #remainder is now deprecated, and the warning
3772 [matz@ne la .] In short, yes.
+ 3773 [aleksi.nieme] I think there will be times every now and then (cryptography might be one
+ 3779 [tadf@kt ri .] I hope not.
  + 3780 [Dave@th ma e] So is date2 now broken with 1.5.4?
  + 3787 [matz@ne la .] Hmm.
    + 3809 [schneiker@ju] A possible big advantage of emulating Python's behavior (which was hopefully
    + 3871 [royhamel@ho ] I'm very much a newbie programmer and don't pretend to be able to follow
      3885 [schneik@au t] I'm somewhat puzzled about that.

Ruby needs \n for last line in here-doc
3774 [aleksi.nieme] The file with content "puts 'foo'" (without \n as a last character) goes
3782 [matz@ne la .] I'll fix it based on your patch.  Thank you.

3775 [aleksi.nieme] I've found following snippet quite handy. Dunno if there's wider need for
3808 [schneiker@ju] Just a general comment--a brief statement of purpose and using conventional
3817 [c.hintze@gm ] I fully agree with you ...
3823 [aleksi.nieme] Agreed! I'm sorry I missed that this time. Hopefully I'm better person next
3855 [matju@CA .O ] \t counts as a number of spaces varying from 1 to 8, whatever necessary to
3856 [Dave@th ma e] I think Conrad was referring to something else. For some reason, when
3860 [schneiker@ju] see.

3776 [aleksi.nieme] module Kernel
3783 [matz@ne la .] Ok, I'd pick this behavior.  Probably a bad news for document writers.;-)
3786 [Dave@th ma e] This coming from the man who removed 'remainder' and changed the
3788 [matz@ne la .] Without previous notice, right?  I meant ANOTHER bad news.
3789 [Dave@th ma e] I can beat your bad news ;-)
3790 [matz@ne la .] Oops, embarassing typo.
3816 [matju@CA .O ] module Useful

Widening out discussions
3781 [Dave@th ma e] I was wondering--how many developers on ruby-lang also read
+ 3791 [matz@ne la .] I (in fact the company I belong) have the Japanese to English
| + 3792 [Dave@th ma e] Presumably that volunteer needs to speak Japanese?
| | 3793 [matz@ne la .] I'm afraid he needs to.  The document for the translation software is
| | 3813 [schneiker@ju] Hmm. Can't the translation software translate its own documentation? :-)
| | 3906 [matz@ne la .] Would you like to see the translation examples?
| | 3916 [schneik@au t] That's very interesting. Thank you both.
| | 3927 [aleksi.nieme] Thank you very much. This is really good (maybe I don't have big
| | + 3928 [matz@ne la .] Hmm, bloody.
| | | 3929 [aleksi.nieme] Yup, I meant the Ruby part.
| | | 3936 [matz@ne la .] It requires Honyaku-damashii from OMRON corp.
| | + 3934 [manamist@wh ] SugHimsi%Japanese.
| | + 3948 [maki@in c. o] I've updated a translator for ruby-list and samples.
| + 3798 [ino-waiting@] what is there to do?  where do you think the problems could arise?
+ 3797 [ino-waiting@] www.dictionary.com.   short texts in a box are translated free, and not