27197-30848

27043-29076 subjects 27292-28995

^ I have visited WWW.RUBYCONF.COM and noticed that ...
27197 [reply seeker] <html>

^ HTML message content
27220 [harryo zipwo] I'm currently using pan as my news reader.  The version I have doesn't
+ 27223 [schneiker ju] FWIW, according to standard USENET policy (which is applies to
+ 27225 [niko.schwarz] thats the least problem with that group...
  + 27245 [huber alum.w] Indeed it does.  I belive that MS LookOut is mostly responsible for
  | 27269 [niko.schwarz] ack.
  | + 27281 [Dave Pragmat] I _believe_ pass them through both ways. However, if you find a
  | + 27288 [schneiker ju] "MS LookOut " ... Very clever! Very cute! :-)
  | | 27347 [niko.schwarz] Yep, that seems to be the case.
  | + 27354 [huber alum.w] Interesting, MS OE only sets the References header when answering
  |   27367 [niko.schwarz] <9ug19h$85td1$1@ID-42792.news.dfncis.de>
  + 27246 [schneiker ju] Can someone enlighten us about the (typical) causes/origins of this problem?

^ Ruby chosen as scripting language for Midgard
27228 [ruby jamesbr] While reading the often amusing comments on Slashdot following Matz interview, I came across one saying Ruby has been picked as the

^ Clarification (RE:  Re: OO AI)
27232 [james rubyxm] It's been brought to my attention that some people may think that I, in a recent post ([ruby-talk:27227] Re: OO AI), may have
27233 [mchahn facel] You just forgot to say :)
27284 [mchahn facel] It is convenient to read email and postings in one operation using outlook.
27301 [matz ruby-la] 3) Stop using outlook (to avoid virus), and go for the smarter

^ Problem with using method_missing to forward messages
27239 [ptkwt shell1] I think what I'm trying to do what I think is called the Proxy pattern in
+ 27242 [Dave Pragmat] Would the delegator class in the standard library do what you need?
| 27248 [ptkwt shell1] Maybe... I'll take another look at it.
| 27262 [decoux moulo] Don't forget the block, it can be usefull sometimes
+ 27249 [kjana dm4lab] ^change this to `*args'

^ ANN: REXML 1.1a7
27240 [ser germane-] My departure for Virginia has been delayed by a week, so I'll be releasing
27253 [maki open-ne] Great!
+ 27275 [erne powerna] The code below should allow conversion from UTF-16 to UTF-8.   I'm not sure
| 27280 [ jimm io.com] Ernest,
| 27298 [erne powerna] In my haste to put something out about converting files to UTF8, I screwed
| 27391 [ser germane-] Thanks for the code.  I'll incorporate this shortly.  It may not be in the
+ 27386 [ ser efn.org] Ah.  I did a quick check of the files that failed, and they were reported
  27434 [maki inac.co] but has some problems of handling UTF-16.

^ RWiki locks netscape?
27241 [W.L.Kleb LaR] Does the RWiki page crash anyone else's netscape browser?
+ 27250 [schneiker ju] FWIW, it looks fine on Netscape 6.1 and MS IE 5.50 on Win2k.
+ 27251 [csawtell par] Works ok on:-
+ 27266 [kentda stud.] No problem in Netscape Communicator 4.77 on Mandrake 8.0
+ 27277 [W.L.Kleb LaR] It's working today.... ?

^ Ruby 1.7 branch
27243 [bobhicks ade] How soon until the 1.7 branch is released? Is there a timeline somewhere
27340 [neumann s-di] IIRC, 1.8 is released this year but without m17n support.
27375 [toddg linux1] All I want for Christmas is Ruby 1.8...
27412 [matz ruby-la] Have you been a good boy this year? ;-)}
27545 [toddg linux1] Santa will never find those bodies, so I'll say yes.

^ Is there a geometer in the house? (OpenGL Translate vs POVray Translate)
27255 [phlip_cpp ya] Below my sig is a snip of RubyFX code attempting to drive OpenGL to make a
27278 [j.m.van.leer] Philip,

^ Any build-in method for decimal to hexadecimal conversion?
27257 [e_chelon yah] I'd like to know if there is any build-in method for
+ 27267 [    s xss.de] irb(main):001:0> class Integer
+ 27274 [matz ruby-la] In 1.7.x, you can do it by 10.to_s(16) => "a"

^ John Roth dolt (  Re: A challenge to proponents of Unit Testing. )
27265 [olczyk inter] Background.
+ 27279 [bigbill.smit] For a long time (starting 1966) I've been developoing a reputation for
+ 27282 [johnroth ame] It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool,
+ 27295 [ronjeffries ] I'm guessing that suffering was due to holding code back when people
  27697 [tadamsmar ao] I am interesting in your use of the word "comprehensive".  Beck gave an
  + 27752 [patrick-may ] A more comprehensive test might include type checking on the
  | 27796 [stephen.hill] You might actually be surprised at how many tests are needed. In "The
  | + 27813 [david.lights] It is rather hard to access either your response or Mr Beck's intent.
  | | + 27818 [dthompson ch] From my reading of XP, this is probably correct. XP Explained opens
  | | | 27820 [curt hibbs.c] Very well put. I'm going to save you message to use the next time I have
  | | + 27822 [olczyk inter] ....doesn't balance the cost and benefits...
  | | | + 27828 [dthompson ch] Email is really an awful way to discuss things. I really doubt that we
  | | | + 27835 [david.lights] Your suggesting, that it be treated as an off the cuff remark (my
  | | | + 28069 [kentbeck my-] I didn't want to respond until I'd done the experiment myself. I apologize
  | | |   + 28081 [david.lights] Given the infrastructure available, 5 tests it is.
  | | |   + 28122 [pallas cs_do] An astounding indictment of the way XP approaches Unit Testing.
  | | |   | + 28129 [    s xss.de] I would definitely prefer to factor deciding the validity into
  | | |   | + 28132 [oliverb hfl.] Joe,
  | | |   | | + 28136 [gkeefer avoc] actually, reliability considerations do make sense for software *systems*.
  | | |   | | | 28174 [universe dir] [I've been there recently and to more agreeably "popping" Knob Hill
  | | |   | | + 28151 [hal9000 hype] comp.object,comp.software.extreme-programming,comp.software-eng,comp.lang.ru
  | | |   | + 28175 [rmartin obje] Not quite.  Tests, in XP, are written concurrently with the production
  | | |   |   28180 [universe dir] Why?  Why wouldn't unit testing only worry about robustly meeting
  | | |   |   28184 [    s xss.de] because that would leave implementation flaws undetected.
  | | |   |   28188 [pdcawley bof] If you write your unit tests before you write your code how can they
  | | |   |   28193 [    s xss.de] because i build the box to exactly fit the contents as described
  | | |   + 28123 [tadamsmar ao] if (any side ==4) {
  | | |     + 28173 [johnroth ame] here)
  | | |     | 29015 [johnroth ame] was
  | | |     + 28176 [rmartin obje] If you accept this as a legitimate testing target, then you must
  | | |     + 28183 [kentbeck my-] Don't put oddities like this in your source code. Working strictly test
  | | |       + 28185 [    s xss.de] would you mind using ruby, as this is ruby-talk? :-)
  | | |       | 28187 [hal9000 hype] proponents of Unit Testing. )
  | | |       | 28194 [    s xss.de] don't know ... but it shows us that there is *lots* of territory
  | | |       | 28223 [jason jvoege] It's being crossposted from comp.object
  | | |       + 28220 [rmartin obje] sizes.sum() > 2*sides.max()
  | | |       + 28294 [kentbeck my-] absolutely
  | | |       | 28338 [pdcawley bof] Shouldn't that be '<', otherwise (1,1,2) is a valid triange, which
  | | |       + 28990 [tadamsmar ao] With the triangle problem, the function might run out of memory when it
  | | |       | + 29068 [rmartin obje] He also hasn't checked for bits being flipped by stray cosmic rays
  | | |       | + 29259 [kentbeck my-] test.
  | | |       + 29023 [johnroth ame] 32-bit
  | | + 27832 [johnroth ame] "The
  | | | + 27833 [lrm provida.] How about bad data? Won't you need tests to ensure that the code can
  | | | | + 27850 [    s xss.de] "What tests would you write for a function that takes 3 numbers (the
  | | | | + 28086 [truediogen m] also do not forget testing blindeness effect and use distinct values
  | | | |   28088 [peter semant] How faulty an implementation?
  | | | + 27836 [paul atdesk.] I think you need more tests than that, but more so because the
  | | + 28084 [truediogen m] (3) is my impression of testing in XP.
  | | + 28085 [truediogen m] also in case (3) Mr Beck should give a customer the worst case
  | |   + 28128 [olczyk inter] That's not the worst case. Several others come to mind if the intested
  | |   + 28182 [kentbeck my-] system
  | |     29086 [truediogen m] Of course but who is here enough experienced in testing _that certain
  | |     29101 [ronjeffries ] I don't think anyone said it was. What other items in development
  | + 27903 [rmartin obje] Set<int> sides; // data structure allows no duplicates.
  |   + 27912 [    s xss.de] you're writing C++ on a ruby mailing list? :-)
  |   + 27936 [david.lights] Fault poorly defined enumerate, case NOT_A_TRIANGLE
  |   + 27958 [rmartin obje] ^^^^^^^^^--oops.
  |     28111 [rbinder rbsc] In this example, wouldn't using an int set for the sides prevent
  |     + 28164 [k1e2i3t4h5r6] Didn't the tests in the examples by Kent and Uncle Bob have 100%
  |     | 28226 [rbinder rbsc] There is no evidence that this has (or would) have happened for an
  |     | + 28543 [brangdon cix] I mostly agree with this, and it bothers me that XP advocates don't seem
  |     | | 28563 [ronjeffries ] The short reason, and I don't mean it to be curt, is that we are
  |     | | + 28569 [david.lights] Don't you kind of have a chicken and an egg situation here. Can't
  |     | | | + 28605 [universe dir] Over the past few days it's become clearer than ever that XP is a
  |     | | | + 28610 [ronjeffries ] We seem to be talking about two different things here or something.
  |     | | | | 28618 [david.lights] I think your answer is -
  |     | | | + 28612 [ronjeffries ] In reading our discussion, it occurs to me that some people might
  |     | | + 28615 [brangdon cix] Do you have any figures on the kinds of coverage that result from normal
  |     | |   + 28617 [k1e2i3t4h5r6] Someone on the XP mailing list said that their first measurement of unit
  |     | |   + 28635 [ronjeffries ] I have seen reports on the extremeprogramming yahoo list of coverage
  |     | |     + 28644 [obricker my-] I'm surprised that you're surpised. I would have thought that you would
  |     | |     + 28697 [brangdon cix] I don't have any, I'm afraid. Perhaps Bob Binder has some.
  |     | |       28704 [ronjeffries ] It's certainly one way to get 100%. I suspect that in most projects,
  |     | + 28562 [ronjeffries ] Bob, thanks for a comprehensive report on coverage. I am a bit
  |     | | + 28570 [macdonaldrj ] Since Bob hasn't advertised himself, I will.
  |     | | + 28616 [brangdon cix] That the function's result should not depend on the order of its arguments
  |     | | | + 28636 [ronjeffries ] I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that (a) the
  |     | | | | 28681 [brangdon cix] (b).
  |     | | | + 28637 [ronjeffries ] Given the implementation, I'm not clear on why we would want to test
  |     | | |   28680 [brangdon cix] Also as documentation, to make explicit a requirement of the function.
  |     | | + 29012 [rbinder rbsc] Unless you're referring to my saying that the example tests didn't get
  |     | |   + 29005 [truediogen m] Maybe they do not want to make their customers who buy XP metoring and
  |     | |   | 29061 [ronjeffries ] The people who have reported coverage used a coverage analyzer to
  |     | |   | + 29221 [truediogen m] None who is not happy??? I can't believe this.
  |     | |   | | 29255 [rmartin obje] I am aware of one XP team, in a company where there are many, whose
  |     | |   | + 29222 [truediogen m] Oh stop that! No more 'it works coz it works, but I don't know why.'
  |     | |   | | 29257 [rmartin obje] The discussion is about test coverage.  You are wondering why people
  |     | |   | + 29231 [truediogen m] Oh you say about the general desires... What's about rediculously
  |     | |   + 29006 [truediogen m] I love it! Thank you for stating so perfectly what I had on mind but
  |     | |   + 29149 [rmartin obje] XP can sometimes get people to raise their hackles.  Sometimes this is
  |     | |   + 30845 [xxxx nisus.c] Nope.  Never was.  Joe & Jack write the tests.  Jack & Joe design &
  |     | + 29009 [patrick-may ] It sounds like coverage analysis could be an excellent addition to XP
  |     | | 29063 [ronjeffries ] Certainly could be. We all recognize that defects can lurk where the
  |     | | 29095 [truediogen m] The problem is the defects will not get affraid of all that and just
  |     | + 29022 [johnroth ame] is not
  |     | | 29062 [ronjeffries ] It'd be a good target. I would be afraid that in languages like Java
  |     | | + 29089 [truediogen m] If it can be achieved it should be tested.
  |     | | | 29136 [rmacdonald a] In his previous post, Ron was referring to required workarounds (caused by
  |     | | + 29129 [johnroth ame] can
  |     | + 29087 [truediogen m] Some comments based on my experience.
  |     + 28177 [rmartin obje] The intent was to return a 1 for equilateral, 2 for isoceles, and 3
  |       + 28198 [sureshvv hot] Sounds like a cop out. You forgot/ignored the "triangle" part of the problem
  |       | + 28202 [    s xss.de] well, yes, basically that's what the classification of triangles
  |       | + 28210 [ronjeffries ] One of the things we often forget in our zeal to be object oriented is
  |       | + 28221 [rmartin obje] A cop out?  Why is a simplification a cop out?
  |       |   + 28326 [sureshvv hot] Returning 1, 2 or 3 all indicate a type of triangle.
  |       |   + 29150 [rmartin obje] Yes, there are.  The XP solution to this dilemma is to create two test
  |       + 28233 [rbinder rbsc] Ok, this is clever way to do the classification. But it seems to me
  |         28238 [olczyk inter] You must also add a reporting mechanism for the violation of these
  |         29176 [richard dyna] This whole discussion, and the effectiveness and coverage of the
  |         + 29194 [universe rad] It also hinges upon the *degree* of quality assurance desired.  No program
  |         | 29251 [ rik kde.org] Well, you can use the Z specification language to 'prove' that your
  |         + 29199 [rmartin obje] XP addresses the issue of quality and correctness of requirements
  |         + 30848 [xxxx nisus.c] Take a look at _Planning XP_.
  + 28083 [truediogen m] also this will never reveal a multiplication was ment for addition by

^ SUPER 1.66$!!!
27268 [gogan hot.ee] <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">

^ Is there a geometer in the house? (OpenGL Translate vs POVray Translate)
27283 [phlip_cpp ya] // POVray

^ New RubyGarden Poll - this one affects us all :)
27287 [Dave Pragmat] case (longest Ruby program I've written)
+ 27290 [mchahn facel] Great.  How do I vote?
| 27293 [armin approx] Simply point your browser to www.rubygarden.org
| 27414 [schneiker ju] Sorry if I'm missing something obvious here. Could someone please explain
| 27447 [Dave Pragmat] The headers of mail and news articles support 'X' lines along with the
| 27469 [mchahn facel] I don't think the poll is structured properly.  For example, the
| 27470 [Dave Pragmat] True, but we'll be able to do the math to say "the majority want a
| + 27481 [paul atdesk.] If they don't make the change, then users that have a problem can (with
| | + 27482 [dthompson ch] I have a "problem". What exactly is this "little bit of effort" with
| | | 27488 [neumann s-di] Put the code above in your .procmailrc if you have procmail installed.
| | | 27546 [hutch xampl.] There appears to be an assumption that needs to be corrected. Not everyone
| | | + 27552 [billk cts.co] I'd miss 'em.  See [ruby-talk:27530] for an example of their use.
| | | | 27553 [dblack candl] Me too.  We need *some* way to refer clearly back and forth to old
| | | | + 27555 [feldt ce.cha] Maybe the mailer could add them at the top of the message body? But the
| | | | + 27556 [Dave Pragmat] Using an X- header, they'd be there if you wanted them.
| | | | | + 27557 [dblack candl] Yeah, I voted for that one :-)
| | | | | + 27564 [matz ruby-la] As some guy (sorry, forgot the name) pointed out, you can get this
| | | | | | 27758 [schneiker ju] all :)"
| | | | | | 27816 [1008173266.1] This is a bad idea, as the google.com archive could go away at any
| | | | | | 27844 [schneiker ju] (posted
| | | | | | + 27846 [curt hibbs.c] I agree, I find myself using google groups more and more.
| | | | | | + 27848 [Dave Pragmat] I don't understand all this discussion. The Ruby articles already are
| | | | | |   + 27854 [paul atdesk.] Currently, the numbers do not show up in the subject line if you read
| | | | | |   | 27856 [Dave Pragmat] The first is the msg_id I get from my newsserver (for tracing
| | | | | |   + 27966 [schneiker ju] Perhaps because you deleted so much of it? :-)
| | | | | + 27565 [1008003389.7] matt
| | | | |   27570 [chris.morris] Granted, this is not nearly as simple/clear as a number in the subject, but
| | | | + 27583 [mchahn facel] That is an arugment for adding the number to the end of the subject.  I just
| | | | + 27635 [curt hibbs.c] As I said before, why not add thenn to the end of the subject instead of the
| | | + 27638 [schneiker ju] What are you talking about???
| | + 27550 [paul atdesk.] Oops, I swapped the -e and the -p here in my haste.  If you use this
| |   27811 [l.laursen ma] I don't know perl, as a matter of fact I'm totally new to
| + 27512 [matz ruby-la] Come on, we are open, sort of. ;-)
+ 27302 [1007770328.d] I noticed the "X-ruby: header" option on the poll -- but there already
  27310 [Dave Pragmat] Yup, although I leave it there - people tend to refer me to articles
  27312 [mchahn facel] How do I vote?
  27316 [curt hibbs.c] Couldn't the number go at the end of the subject instead if the beginning?
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