23044-24253

22813-32671 subjects 23179-24518

Ruby compared to....
23044 [tub4jxr@ho m] All,
23067 [kevinbsmith@] I looked into LUA for a while, but never used it. It is

Deprecate keyword?
23047 [chris.morris] Does Ruby have anything like Java's deprecate keyword?
23056 [Pierre-Charl] class Module
23103 [nobu.nokada@] def #{methodName}(*args, &block)

ncurses in ruby
23049 [Manuel.Hende] is there a possiblity to use ncurses, slang or something similar to
23066 [neumann@s- i] There is a curses lib. See directory ext/curses of the Ruby source
23182 [kjana@dm la ] If you prefer slang, there's

[ANN] GraphR 0.1.0 (was Re: WebDot)
23052 [feldt@ce ch ] Well it looks like its your lucky day ;-). Really I'm not sure this does
23055 [tobiasreif@p] GraphR

UNSUBSCRIBE ME
23053 [tapasvi@ii t] ...

UNSUBSCRIBE ME
23054 [tapasvi@ii t] ...
24253 [justin_khup@] __________________________________________________

installing zlib
23057 [tobiasreif@p] how to install zlib? (Win & Lin)
23059 [ned@bi e- om] ruby extconf.rb
23060 [tobiasreif@p] Thanks; and on win?
23064 [neumann@s- i] ruby extconf.rb
23086 [tobiasreif@p] Is it included in the win installer? Because I downloaded the zlip
23115 [neumann@s- i] Have a look into the lib directory, either of site_ruby/1.6/i386-cygwin or

Textbook for Ruby
23062 [rittera@is 0] Where might I locate a good (the definitive?) textbook with which to
23075 [chris.morris] ...
23106 [rittera@is 0] Thank you.

Bruce Eckel's opinion of Ruby
23063 [rich@in oe h] Ouch!
+ 23065 [feldt@ce ch ] You can check the thread starting with [ruby-talk:20135].
| 23082 [emile@ir s- ] The difference being that people that think like this about riding
| 23110 [feldt@ce ch ] Agreed, but...
| 23117 [emile@ir s- ] OK, point taken.
+ 23068 [Dave@Pr gm t] This was discussed a while back, if I remember correctly.
+ 23076 [eric@ba tu .] 2 years, and approximately 10,000 lines of Ruby in the past 2 months. Thus I
| + 23077 [eric@ba tu .] Forgot one more thing: Strings and regular expressions. This is one area
| + 23084 [neumann@s- i] You can do the same in Ruby. Either use lambda (as in Python) or proc
| | + 23087 [eric@ba tu .] While nice in its context, this does not work for many paradigms. For
| | | + 23088 [feldt@ce ch ] Ok, I think I understand this better now.
| | | | 23096 [rich@in oe h] I realize it does not in the sense that overriding a method on class Array will effect the entire interpreter, but in the sense that it partitions symbols (variables, classes, modules, etc).
| | | | + 23098 [pbrannan@at ] Someone brought this up at the conference.  Does this give the desired
| | | | | 23114 [vjoel@PA H. ] I think I'm going to frame that and put it on my wall!
| | | | + 23099 [feldt@ce ch ] Not in the sense below.
| | | + 23091 [kevinbsmith@] Shhhhh. Don't tell the Java programmers that destructors
| | | + 23095 [emile@ir s- ] No offence but I think that a good design up front would be the most useful
| | | | 23101 [eric@ba tu .] And you work in which mythical shop that does everything "right"? :-)
| | | | + 23109 [emile@ir s- ] I don't. I don't even think I'd want to :) What I was (tersely) pointing
| | | | + 23159 [billk@ct .c ] We're finding it fun to tell them they can have whatever they want,
| | | + 23131 [nigelb@en sb] The Observer pattern, also known as Publish/Subscribe, provides a simple
| | + 23090 [pbrannan@at ] This works fine for short-lived objects, but how can I use blocks for
| | | + 23100 [tobiasreif@p] second that. I love Ruby, but often miss various libs.
| | | + 23102 [pixel@ma dr ] Hey, ruby does have a memory management system, it just doesn't ensure
| | | + 23122 [dblack@ca dl] s/re// # in the circumstances you're describing :-)
| | | | 23168 [tobiasreif@p] I don't understand that. What's your point?
| | | | 23173 [dblack@ca dl] Simply that if Ruby doesn't already have a (working) library of a given type,
| | | | 23193 [neumann@s- i] s/re// is a Perl regular expression, substituting "re" with "".
| | | | + 23195 [pbrannan@at ] I think sed and vi had this long before perl.
| | | | + 23196 [tobiasreif@p] #<Regexp:0x459a880>inventing
| | | | | 23206 [neumann@s- i] $ echo "reinventing" | ruby -pe "sub /re/, ''"
| | | | | 23278 [tobiasreif@p] Why better?
| | | | + 23615 [erik@ba fo s] Acctually it's also availiable in sed, vim, vi, awk (I think) and lot's
| | | + 23123 [alan@di ik t] You mean like this?
| | |   23142 [emile@ir s- ] But it still wouldn't be the default behaviour. Having class-private
| | |   + 23146 [rich@in oe h] In the following I am not trying to be anti-Python...just trying to set the record straight...
| | |   | 23155 [emile@ir s- ] But reading this it is immediately clear to me you are violating the
| | |   | 23156 [rich@in oe h] obj.instance_eval("@attrName=value")
| | |   + 23201 [alan@di ik t] The funny thing is that it's pretty easy to access private
| | |     23202 [emile@ir s- ] That doens't matter much to me. What does matter is that it's obvious
| | + 23118 [avdi@av i. r] Ditto this.  I'm surprised by how often this feature gets overlooked.
| |   + 23121 [neumann@s- i] True. You cannot do everything with blocks.
| |   | 23125 [avdi@av i. r] I would go so far as to say it doesn't work at all, unless I completely
| |   | 23167 [neumann@s- i] It is usable. Imagine you build a layer around a very low-level database
| |   + 23124 [nhodgson@bi ] Deterministic finalization (DF) is a great feature but the Jython
| |   + 23148 [pdcawley@bo ] Python *still* doesn't have real closures? Coo. One more reason for
| |     23174 [pixel@ma dr ] not true anymore since python 2.1
| |     23178 [pdcawley@bo ] Phew.
| |     23184 [feldt@ce ch ] Lazy iteration? Do you mean "Lazy evaluation" or is this different?
| |     23186 [pdcawley@bo ] Do you know, I think I'm confused. Take a look at Larry's apocalypses
| + 23085 [feldt@ce ch ] I'm trying to understand them fully and have some questions. Would be
| | + 23093 [emile@ir s- ] Yes, to enforce a certain coding format. I'm no great fan of python myself,
| | | 23108 [ser@ge ma e-] There is always a balance between maintainability and productivity.  I
| | | 23113 [emile@ir s- ] This is where we agree...
| | | + 23127 [ser@ge ma e-] Agreed, although I think I could still obfuscate Python if I tried.  I
| | | | 23528 [paulp@pr sc ] People even obfuscate Python without trying. All the language does is
| | | + 23149 [pdcawley@bo ] As does Perl. As does almost any programming language you care to
| | | + 23160 [tobiasreif@p] Ruby certainly allows for
| | |   + 23162 [rich@in oe h] Writing code in such a way that you are the only person on the planet who can support it (because nobody else can figure it out), thus ensuring you will always have a job...or..."job security".
| | |   + 23163 [cboos@bc -t ] It means that you write your code in such a way that you are the only
| | |   + 23164 [hal9000@hy e] Ha. That's code that is so obscure that
| | |   | 23227 [peterhi@sh k] But it better work!
| | |   + 23175 [emile@ir s- ] See http://www.ioccc.org/. There was also a IOPCC which was hosted at
| | |   + 23177 [W.L.Kleb@La ] Isn't that a coding without Unit Tests?
| | |   + 23203 [ntalbott@ro ] explanation of it. Every time I *think* about this page I crack up.
| | |     23223 [hal9000@hy e] Thanks for that link, Nathaniel... I just read about a third of it,
| | + 23097 [eric@ba tu .] More like something that can be done with Ruby (true global variables) that
| |   + 23104 [feldt@ce ch ] I fail to see why this cannot be done easily in Ruby. But I probably don't
| |   | 23112 [emile@ir s- ] Not all source code management tools support this, and people will
| |   | + 23128 [kero@d4 50 u] programers of a team, partialy due to the fact that the majority is
| |   | | 23153 [emile@ir s- ] IOW, a prime candidate for Python :)
| |   | | 23205 [kero@d4 50 u] The ppl in my project that set up the coding guidelines were of the
| |   | | 23211 [emile@ir s- ] I'd chalk that up to concidence rather than it being the standard.
| |   | + 23393 [paulp@Ac iv ] The Python library adheres to a formal coding standard outlined by
| |   |   23416 [neumann@s- i] All "block-oriented" languages (e.g. not Pascal, C/C++ or Java, but
| |   + 23116 [neumann@s- i] I didn't got your point, but I am sure this can be done very easy
| |   + 23119 [ser@ge ma e-] Ummm... then don't use global data.  At worst, you'd be no worse off than
| |   | 23141 [emile@ir s- ] You might not use it, but your i-know-better neighbour will.
| |   | + 23219 [ser@ge ma e-] Then it will be her variables that will be overwritten, not mine.
| |   | | + 23220 [eric@ba tu .] In my experience, it doesn't matter what the coding standard is. What matters
| |   | | | 23258 [ ser@ef .o g] In general, I would agree with you.  My only caveat is that while
| |   | | + 23221 [emile@ir s- ] Which is great if you work in isolation and interface cleanly. It's
| |   | | | 23259 [ ser@ef .o g] A very good point.
| |   | | | + 23264 [emile@ir s- ] Not everyone who programs is necesarily trained to be a programmer.
| |   | | | | + 23317 [ser@ge ma e-] Yeah, I guess so.  I know I do, especially with applications that start out
| |   | | | | | + 23327 [emile@ir s- ] Unfortunately, there's often no budget for refacturing.
| |   | | | | | | 23444 [ ser@ef .o g] Good lord!  Are you serious?  Refactoring shouldn't something you budget
| |   | | | | | + 23328 [ptkwt@sh ll ] Oh, no.... There goes the thread...
| |   | | | | + 23320 [eric@ba tu .] Yeah, sometimes you must cope with people who are, uhm, less than stellar, in
| |   | | | | | 23321 [Dave@Pr gm t] And then you wonder why they aren't stellar...
| |   | | | | | + 23329 [ptkwt@sh ll ] I was thinking the same thing exactly...  If you continually give someone
| |   | | | | | + 23331 [eric@ba tu .] One thing I learned from teaching was never to do anything that I could get
| |   | | | | | + 23332 [eric@ba tu .] One thing I learned from teaching was never to do anything that I could get
| |   | | | | | + 23333 [eric@ba tu .] One thing I learned from teaching was never to do anything that I could get
| |   | | | | |   + 23386 [toddg@fo bo ] Considering this message arrived thrice, I wonder if you should be
| |   | | | | |   | 23398 [eric@ba tu .] My apology for the multiple post. I am in the process of moving and my
| |   | | | | |   | 23466 [toddg@fo bo ] "But if you assign a difficult task to a person and it turns out that you
| |   | | | | |   | 23474 [eric@ba tu .] Please do not make slanderous assumptions about what I propose or oppose.
| |   | | | | |   + 23415 [Stephan.Kaem] .... snipped away quite a bit ...
| |   | | | | + 23334 [johann@ph si] I must admit to being surprised when several people complained about
| |   | | | + 23280 [tobiasreif@p] What does "onry" mean?
| |   | | | | + 23284 [joel.neely@f] SouthernUSAmericanEnglish for "ornery".
| |   | | | | + 23348 [hal9000@hy e] Very American slang, usually spelled "ornery" --
| |   | | | + 23312 [ned@bi e- om] Oddly enough, half of all programmers are below average... and they seem to
| |   | | |   + 23313 [brucedickey@] Good one.
| |   | | |   | 23337 [joel.neely@f] But, unfortunately, not true.
| |   | | |   | 23364 [johann@ph si] Well, usually the 'average' can mean either the median, mean, or mode.
| |   | | |   + 23349 [hal9000@hy e] to
| |   | | + 23346 [akuchlin@me ] I don't understand this objection, as all Python requires is that each
| |   | + 23228 [peterhi@sh k] es.com...
| |   |   23230 [emile@ir s- ] Eeeeeeeuuuuuuwwww! Horrid!
| |   + 23120 [feldt@ce ch ] FYI,
| |   + 23151 [billk@ct .c ] self.I've self.worked self.on self.more self.Python self.programs
| |     + 23158 [carlom@sp in] Is any one interested in the opinion of Guido van Rossum on this subject?
| |     + 23636 [ngps@ma ca .] Tough to read... your indentation style, I think... ;-)
| + 23107 [ser@ge ma e-] That was a good run-down.
| | + 23134 [matz@ru y- a] GC.start
| | + 23150 [Stephan.Kaem] I'd like to know how large the large projects are in Ruby (in LOC or
| |   + 23161 [feldt@ce ch ] I can't compare to other languages but the ones of my projects I consider
| |   + 23216 [ser@ge ma e-] Oh, much smaller. REXML is has more features than Electric XML (Java), but
| + 23143 [martin.kahle] I would second this. I once took a quick look and tried Python (1.5) for
| + 23147 [pdcawley@bo ] You should also offset it by the fact that non reference counting
| + 23157 [c.hintze@gm ] thanks for the fair statements you have made. I agree with many of
| + 23387 [paulp@Ac iv ] Just a few factual observations.
|   + 23399 [eric@ba tu .] [Ruby]
|   | 23423 [paul@pr sc d] I have no experience here. I tend to use XML-RPC and SOAP to build
|   | 23461 [eric@ba tu .] Okay, I'll take a stab at this.
|   | 23570 [paulp@Ac iv ] That's fine. It's your business. I just wanted to know whether you had
|   + 23417 [neumann@s- i] I am sure Python will never have a "Rinda", because this stands for
+ 23079 [pixel@ma dr ] # Perhaps the real question to ask, which is usually what I ask myself when I'm
| 23388 [paulp@Ac iv ] I really don't think that that's an accurate picture of history. Nested
| 23422 [pixel@ma dr ] ok, let's say instead that the differences between Python and Ruby are getting
| 23425 [paul@pr sc d] Fair enough. Perl 6 is probably converging on a similar place also.
| + 23433 [joel.neely@f] I think perhaps I remember you from the Python mailing list a few years
| | 23465 [paul@pr sc d] Yes, I've been known to hang out there too. :0-)
| + 23442 [neumann@s- i] Even if the languages will have similar feature-sets, their philosophy and
+ 23129 [jobeicus@ho ] wow!  i'll have to stop using ruby immediately
+ 23139 [nvivek@ko ar] The fellow who thinks he knows it all is especially annoying to those of

splitting a string with nested elements
23069 [joe@vp p. et] string = "start {{blah {{ }} outside\n{{ {{ }}\n}} bye"
+ 23070 [feldt@ce ch ] Nested comments is the canonical example of what can *NOT* be done with
| 23073 [green@Fr eB ] Writing a recursive-descent parser using regexes for string matching is a
+ 23072 [jjthrash@po ] Joe,
+ 23078 [Dave@Pr gm t] You can do it with regexps fairly efficiently, but it's a tad
  + 23094 [tobiasreif@p] ... into Docbook? from what? and then? just (obviously) curious ;)
  | 23111 [Dave@Pr gm t] No, just a random schema that fits the book (docbook doesn't do stuff I
  + 23239 [joe@vp p. et] Thanks Dave, Robert, Jimmy, etc...
    23256 [joe@vp p. et] I found a bug... It didn't like strings that *started* with a

Re: Deprecate keyword? (what does 'module_eval <<END' mean?)
23081 [ptkwt@sh ll ] I was looking through your code snippet and there is an idiom that I don't
23083 [neumann@s- i] starting on a next line.

Variants (theoretical question)
23089 [hal9000@hy e] I may be offbase here...
23166 [hipster@xs a] this quote from (thx 2 google)

Instance VARS and C objects
23105 [rokosm@kl ka] I'm developing some extensions for Ruby (OpenSSL binding - maybe
23135 [matz@ru y- a] You've shown the problem of IV appoach.
23176 [rokosm@kl ka] Just one reason to allow InstanceVariables is nicer code.
23257 [matz@ru y- a] I see. You want to show arrays as your revealing data.

enough about Python -- here's something fun in Ruby :-)
23126 [dblack@ca dl] This emerged from some tinkering, and I actually thought it was kind
+ 23170 [decoux@mo lo] Well, probably I'm stupid but what is the difference with
| 23172 [dblack@ca dl] All that my thing does is put private code in a block, which
+ 23192 [pbrannan@at ] Looks like an interesting idea.
+ 23253 [nobu.nokada@] Once I'd suggested a simillar.  Attaching the patch.

popen with Threads lock bug? Really unusual
23130 [ruby-lang@pr] While developing Tzunami (http://tzunami.sourceforge.net for the
23187 [decoux@mo lo] Just a suggestion

Ruby on AIX -- ext/socket never compiled?
23132 [thomas@st om] I'm working on an open-source project (http://tzunami.sourceforge.net),

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23133 [kris_vedula@] ...


23137 [ralph.mason@] This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

Re: Overriding #== [numeric operators; hashing and comparison; binary selectors]
23138 [pulsar@qk .c] When I originally designed QKS Smalltalk, I distinguished the notions of

Re: Creating blocks at runtime
23140 [pulsar@qk .c] <g> Well that's certainly fair.
23217 [jim@fr ez .o] Hmm... Looks like www.smallscript.org is windows exclusive. It crashes
23218 [ned@bi e- om] And under Konqueror it tries to load a bunch of Java applets; turning off
23238 [hutch@xa pl ] Works on Mac OS X using IE. So not entirely an escape from Microsoft.

Re: Bruce Eckel's opinion of Ruby [SmallScript/AOS Selector Namespaces]
23144 [pulsar@qk .c] From Dave Simmons
23145 [pulsar@qk .c] were principally my work over the last ten years or so with QKS Smalltalk
23154 [rich@in oe h] module A
23190 [pulsar@qk .c] because in B when you define class Foo you are not just replacing the module
23198 [feldt@ce ch ] This was very clear, thank you David. Sounds really useful if current

Re: [SmallScript/AOS Selector Namespaces] Additional Comments
23152 [pulsar@qk .c] I should probably mention that we could also have done all the selector

Ruby extension wishlist
23169 [feldt@ce ch ] Please post your wishlist for extensions that you think Ruby is
23231 [csawtell@pa ] Seeing as you have asked for ideas, what I would _really_ like to see, but
+ 23233 [feldt@ce ch ] Do you mean a GUI builder (something like FoxPilot
| 23243 [csawtell@pa ] From looking at these pages, but not hands on experience, vtcl would appear,
| 24157 [schneiker@ju] to
+ 23531 [web2ed@ya oo] ....this would ROCK to the bone!
  23546 [csawtell@pa ] How would you like a "meaningful learning exercise" (for both of us I'm sure)
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