That really put a smile on my face - thanks! I've been kicking the tyres on ruby for a while now, but only recently wrote a "proper app", by which I mean completely test-first, cleanly refactored, etc. The signal to noise ratio is awesome, coming from a Java background by way of C++ and Perl. I write a failing test, write about 3 lines of really clean Ruby code, and the test passes. Where's the casting? Where's the Foo foo = new Foo() verbosity? Interfaces? Dynamic proxies? Woohoo - I don't need any of that nonsense! I've written object-oriented Perl systems - and no, it's not pretty! - and I often describe Ruby as the bastard offspring of Perl and Smalltalk (well come on - they aren't exactly married are they?). It seems to me the reason Ruby is so Perl-friendly is a deliberate tactic to encourage Perlmongers wanting to try out Ruby, rather than thinking "that's a really clear, intuitive syntax - let's do it that way!". It's all implemented as syntactic sugar around a pure object-oriented language anyway, and as I am discovering the Ruby Way of doing things like blocks, iterators, mixins etc. the Perl and Java syntax just feels clumsy. (My first attempts at Ruby looked a lot like Java - no surprise there then - but now they look a lot more like Ruby :) Just the confused ramblings etc., Dan ps. Just noticed 5.times do |i| ... end. This language rocks! Ben Giddings wrote: > On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 10:47 PM, Tim Hammerquist wrote: > >> To liken this to natural languages, isn't this much like the >> French condemning Latin for it's foolish practice of conjugation? > > > Naah, it's more like how teenagers are so incredibly embarrassed to be > seen with their parents. Sometimes the teenagers are overly sensitive > about their parents' flaws. Sometimes, they are simply right. I > mean, black socks with flip-flops? C'mon! > > Perl is fun. If there were no Ruby I'd probably still use it. Doing > OO-ish programming in Perl... that's black socks and flip-flops. > > Ben > > >