Let me say that Chris has taken me on as a distance "student" to work out
some of the details (I know nada programming basically). I can tell you a
lot from a students perspective as some of these issues iron out.

A few tutorial additions/etc:
A tutor is most helpful. Self pacing is great, but when you don't even know
what the pool looks like it's hard to jump in. The first advice I got was
write a game. I don't know how to write anything more complex than "hello,
world." I don't fault the person who said this, they just didn't know where
I was, and probably didn't want to get messily involved in my skinned
programming knees.

Advise people to right away try to grab pickaxe from amazon or half.com
used. I have it winging its way here for $10 US.

irb is 50/50... I think I would rather go with an editor or ide upfront
(I'm a sysadmin, used to nanoing things all day). I think that a lot of
people are used to word processors etc, where they can see the whole. Just
my thoughts there.

If you want me to address specific things as this thread goes on, email me
directly, or just throw my name in there with a Hey, what do you think? I
may be wrong, but at least I can help you all remember how a nuby feels
about things.

Jason
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gavin Sinclair" <gsinclair / soyabean.com.au>
To: "ruby-talk ML" <ruby-talk / ruby-lang.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: Ruby Book for People Who Aren't (Yet) Programmers


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Kelly" <billk / cts.com>
>
>
> > [excellent points for and against teaching IRB up-front]
>
> I agree with both of you.  I think Chris's tutorial should introduce IRB
> somewhere, just not right at the beginning.  And Daniel's tutorial should
> introduce it right up-front because it seems to be aiming at a slightly
more
> knowledgeable audience.
>
> And then we can soak in tutorial goodness!
>
> Whatever the considerations about teaching IRB to nubies, the fact can't
be
> avoided that the answers to most of life's questions are found in IRB, so
> nubies should be made to understand that.  But it doesn't hurt for them to
be
> taught a few important things beforehand!
>
> Gavin
>
>


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