This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_extPart_001_01C294D1.754DBDA0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

It's all a matter of what you're used to.  My guess is that most developers
that have spent significant time using languages that support ++ and --,
such as C++ and Java, miss having them in Ruby.  The extra keystrokes are
one issue, but a bigger one to me is just having to remember that they
aren't supported in Ruby.  It wouldn't be a problem if I could only program
in Ruby, but since I still have to code in Java a lot (not necessarily by
choice), I end up typing the following in Ruby.

i++ backspace backspace space + pace 1

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rando Christensen [mailto:rando / babblica.net]
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 4:11 PM
> To: ruby-talk / ruby-lang.org
> Cc: dcarrera / math.umd.edu
> Subject: Re: Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know (11/24/02)
> 
> 
> Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:30:36 +0900: Daniel Carrera (Daniel Carrera
> <dcarrera / math.umd.edu>):
> 
> > > 9. Ruby has no pre/post increment/decrement operator. For 
> instance,
> > > x++ or x-- will fail to parse.
> > 
> > Why is that?  x++ and x-- are very convenient.  I sort of understand
> > why++x and --x don't exist.  But why can't numbers have a "++" and
> > "--" method?
> 
> I don't see it as that big of a deal. "very convenient"? How
> about "marginally convenient"? Really, how much more 
> convenient is this:
> 
> x++
> 
> over this?
> 
> x + 
> 
> By my count, it's two spaces, a shift key, and an extra character. And
> you can drop the spaces if you'd like. But the second form certainly
> seems more clear to me, and I even use +over ++ in /all/ 
> languages I
> code in.
> 
> If Ruby supported neither ++ /nor/ +then it'd get a little 
> annoying,
> as you'd have to x   + 1, but I really just don't see what makes it
> "very convenient". 
> 
> 
> -- 
> < There is a light that shines on the frontier >
> <   And maybe someday, We're gonna be there.   >
> <    Rando Christensen / rando / babblica.net    >
> 


***********************************************************************************
WARNING:  All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received or
otherwise recorded by the A.G. Edwards corporate e-mail system and is
subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to,
someone other than the recipient.
************************************************************************************

------_extPart_001_01C294D1.754DBDA0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know (11/24/02)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>It's all a matter of what you're used to.&nbsp; My guess is that most developers that have spent significant time using languages that support ++ and --, such as C++ and Java, miss having them in Ruby.&nbsp;he extra keystrokes are one issue, but a bigger one to me is just having to remember that they aren't supported in Ruby.&nbsp; It wouldn't be a problem if I could only program in Ruby, but since I still have to code in Javaot (not necessarily by choice), I end up typing the following in Ruby.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>i++ backspace backspace space += space 1</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; From: Rando Christensen [mailto:rando / babblica.net]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 4:11 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; To: ruby-talk / ruby-lang.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Cc: dcarrera / math.umd.edu</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Subject: Re: Things That Newcomers to Ruby Should Know (11/24/02)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:30:36 +0900: Daniel Carrera (Daniel Carrera</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &lt;dcarrera / math.umd.edu&gt;):</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; 9. Ruby has no pre/post increment/decrement operator. For </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; instance,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; &gt; x++ or x-- will fail to parse.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; Why is that?&nbsp; x++ and x-- are very convenient.&nbsp; I sort of understand</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; why++x and --x don't exist.&nbsp; But why can't numbers have a &quot;++&quot; and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; &quot;--&quot; method?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; I don't see it as that big of a deal. &quot;very convenient&quot;? How</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; about &quot;marginally convenient&quot;? Really, how much more </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; convenient is this:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; x++</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; over this?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; x += 1</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; By my count, it's two spaces, a shift key, and an extra character. And</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; you can drop the spaces if you'd like. But the second form certainly</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; seems more clear to me, and I even use +=1 over ++ in /all/ </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; languages I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; code in.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; If Ruby supported neither ++ /nor/ +=, then it'd get a little </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; annoying,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; as you'd have to x = x + 1, but I really just don't see what makes it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &quot;very convenient&quot;. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; -- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &lt; There is a light that shines on the frontier &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &lt;&nbsp;&nbsp; And maybe someday, We're gonna be there.&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &lt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rando Christensen / rando / babblica.net&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

<CODE><FONT SIZE=3><BR>
<BR>
***********************************************************************************<BR>
WARNING:  All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received or<BR>
otherwise recorded by the A.G. Edwards corporate e-mail system and is<BR>
subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to,<BR>
someone other than the recipient.<BR>
************************************************************************************<BR>
</FONT></CODE></BODY>
</HTML>
------_extPart_001_01C294D1.754DBDA0--