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In article <200208171145.23023.dsafari / paradise.net.nz>,
Holden Glova  <dsafari / paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>
>Hello all,
>
>I have always watched people comare using IDE's over straight text editing and 
>they end up only ever comparing the editing ability of IDEs. I guess that is 
>because that is about as much as the two have in common. What I think people 
>avoid discussing is how much benefit a decent IDE can provide. I'm talking 
>about things like:
>- - built in debugger
>- - built in unit testing which lets you jump to the failed line when a test 
>fails
>- - built in source control
>- - built in refactorings - even simple things like rename method and having 
>that propagated throughout your code base is a _huge_ help IMHO.
>
>I find through using some sort of class browser it also helps me keep a better 
>view of the overall object model because navigating within hierarchies is 
>just easier (assuming you do one class per file).
>
>Sure I love the editing power of ViM, but I find that the productivity I can 
>get out of using a decent IDE like eclipse or IDEA outweighs the power of the 
>editor. Now if someone could just write ViM bindings for eclipse I'd be 
>pretty happy :)
>

- - I can do all this in Emacs and have a powerful editor. Is it
  easy and simple and out of the box? Well, for C lang
  programming it pretty much is. It's a bit harder for Ruby, 
  but it's all possible. 

- - I suspect you can do the same with a sufficently powerful
  version of VIM. I think the key thing for me is that the
  tool has to be scriptable. Ultimately you will run into
  a place where the IDE or editor just doesn't do the 
  "right" thing. With most IDE's you're stuck then, you're
  stuck then with a lot of editors. IMHO, there's something
  wrong when a programmer is using a tool that isn't
  programable. 

- - I think the big problem with most IDE's is that the designers
  get confused and actually just build a specialized editor. 
  Any IDE worth the name should allow the editor to be a 
  pluggable tool. The fact that you are asking this question
  implies to me that the tool you're using is broken. It 
  shouldn't be an either/or choice, environments with both
  have been around for twenty years. 

- - Booker C. Bense 

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