Concerning an attr for civ's, would it really be detrimental, though? True it's something that would very rarely be used, but it almost feels like it's something that belongs there. I guess what I mean is, if attr_accessor exists it feels to me like there should be a sort of class-level equivalent. Maybe that's just me, though. This has somewhat moved beyond my depth. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.