On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:29 AM, James Edward Gray II
<james / graysoftinc.com> wrote:
> On Dec 21, 2010, at 9:45 AM, Charles Oliver Nutter wrote:
>> Ruby needs to grow beyond being a Unix-only language.
>
> When Ruby is running on Unix and doesn't have those abilities, we've lostomething in the translation.

This I agree with. I'd like to provide the opt-in POSIX versions as a
standard library, so folks on Unix running JRuby can just require
'jruby/posix' and everything flips.

> I wasn't running on Windows when I found the bugs.

JRuby distributes a single binary for all platforms; that's why we
usually try to avoid making platform-specific logic when possible. We
certainly do it in areas, but generally we try to keep things feeling
the same across all platforms we support in a single distributable.
That's a large reason why JRuby's often the easiest way to get Ruby
running on a given platform (and the JVM authors have done most of the
cross-platform binaries for us at that level, of course).

MRI, on the other hand, can't distribute a single binary, and so
there's scads of platform-specific logic applied at build time. That
makes it possible to be more platform specific out of the box, but
also means things often vary across platforms in unexpected ways.
Tradeoffs.

>> I think it's the "sucks" that I don't like. Just saying something
>> "sucks" because you don't agree with how it does things isn't
>> informative or helpful.
>
> I think it's sad you have trouble with that word.
>
> I suck at a LOT of things. I'll make you a list sometime.
>
> I've heard Matz explain things MRI sucks at before, though he probably didn't use that exact word.
>
> If JRuby was perfect, we would all use JRuby all the time and all other Ruby interpreters would die out. That hasn't happened yet. :)

JRuby's certainly not perfect, and I'll be the first to admit when
it's an inherent problem we can't solve. But for cases like this,
where we actively made a decision to deviate, I feel it necessary to
point out why we made that decision so people don't think it's just
because "JRuby sucks" and walk away.

>> You can't please everyone all the time. It's unfortunate that some
>> people think this means you "suck".
>
> I never said you suck Charlie. I don't think anything like that. You're a hero of our community.
>
> I also never said JRuby sucks. I said it sucks at some things.

I will also admit I tend to conflate "JRuby" and "me". After working
on it for so many years, attacks on the project often feel like
attacks on me. I'll try harder to keep the two separate in the future
:)

> We can still be friends as far as I'm concerned! :)

Of course :)

- Charlie