On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 5:44 PM, John W Higgins <wishdev / gmail.com> wrote:
> Good Afternoon,
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Lucas Nussbaum <lucas / lucas-nussbaum.net>wrote:
>
>> With ruby libraries:
>> - it is usually difficult to find a usable source. Sometimes we have to
>>         >> githubredir.debian.net) that allows us to fetch a specific tag on
>>   >>
>
> I'm rather confused by this - a gem file (at least as far as I can find)
> contains two files data.tar.gz and metadata.tar.gz within the tar.gz shell
> of the .gem file - what exactly is the issue with that layout? Is there
> something specific that this doesn't provide you that is of great
> importance?
>
>
>> - then we often have to modify the source, to remove the calls to
>> require 'rubygems'"
>>
>
> I'm pretty sure that's a one liner for 99.9% of cases and I really don't
> think is necessary - you really should look at how Gentoo installs gems
> because we get the benefit of both "manually" installing a package as well
> as full integration within RubyGems (for example gem list --local shows all
> gems installed via portage and well as gem install). If there is no ebuild
> file we can infact turn to emerge-gem to take a gem file and create an
> ebuild (including full dependency checks from the gem itself). Does it work
> every single time - nope - but it seems like a huge improvement over whats
> going on with Debian at the moment.
>
>
>> - then we have to find a way to install the files. If the directory
>>       㮮  
>>        >>       
>>
>
> Again, you keep seeming to want to continue to take shot after shot at
> developers when clearly it's an issue with the ability of Debian to have any
> flexibility - again looking at Gentoo it somehow, in a very much automated
> fashion, manages to handle all these wild and wacky libraries.
>
> In fact you might want to look at Gentoo as a way to create sources packages
> because it seems to handle all your issues and will present a nice simple
> tar.bz2 package of the files that might be much easier to work with in
> regards to your need for standardization. And I'm truly not saying that to
> be an idiot or anything - it really seems like Gentoo has solved the issues
> you are having, at least with respect to getting the files into some formf
> a constant layout which may be of great help to you.

Putting my self in Lucas' shoes, I have to say that such advice seems
like telling a Christian that he should accept Mohammed, or an Arab or
Buddhist that If they just accept Jesus as their savior everything
will be all right.

Me, I'm for freedom of religion, as long as I'm free to practice as I wish.

<duck>What have I opened myself up for</duck>

Seriously though. Each distro has it's own philosophy and goals.
Debian tries to balance stability with keeping up with the latest
trends.  It appeals to people who like such stability.  At times
though this has caused problems, the loooong interlude between Woody
and Sarge caused a lot of folks to champ at the bit for new stuff.
That's one of the reasons Ubuntu got popular, it introduced timeboxed
releases so that one could be assured that one would be getting a
'stable' refresh every 6 months or so, and not have to dip into the
testing or horror of horrors 'sid' version. Canonical was more
aggressive in pulling stuff from the testing branch, reworking it and
contributing it back.

Personally, I use Ubuntu for my linux boxes, but I still use Ruby and
rubygems from source.

Lucas' dilemma is that he is trying to deal with a rapidly moving body
of software in Ruby and particularly ruby gems, in the context of the
conservative debian philosophy.

I don't envy him.

-- 
Rick DeNatale

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