On Mar 17, 2010, at 14:32, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:

> I hope this clarifies the status of Ruby in Debian and Ubuntu a bit.
> Also, it would be great if all the sarcasm and nasty comments on this
> list each time someone brings up Ruby and Debian or Ubuntu could be
> reduced a bit. I am working on providing Ruby packages in Debian and
> Ubuntu as a volunteer, and don't really enjoy all the flames I get on
> this list. Constructive criticism is welcomed (preferably as bug
> reports), but is very rare here, unfortunately.

Unfortunately I end up having to handle most of the issues that Debian =
creates due to their splitting up Ruby into multiple packages because of =
the way it affects Ruby and RubyGems.  I can reduce my support load and =
increase my free time by saying "install all of Ruby and RubyGems by =
hand on Debian and Ubuntu".  Once RubyGems is installed it's fairly =
smooth sailing on Debian unless you install a gem that needs to compile =
against missing headers.

It's especially frustrating when features are added to RubyGems that =
have the express goal of helping Debian and Ubuntu are either ignored =
(rubygems/defaults/operating_system, added in 1.2.0) or are rejected for =
what seems to boil down to policy reasons (Neil Wilson's work in =
http://bugs.debian.org/403407).

When you say things like:

> The problem is that the upstream rubygems developers don't care, and =
that it's impossible to change that without their cooperation.

I don't see how we (that work on RubyGems) could possibly have ever =
cared if you're not subscribed to the mailing list where you would raise =
those concerns nor have you filed any bugs with any of these concerns.

We certainly can't cooperate when you don't bother to raise any issues =
in the places we're looking for them.

PS:

Not taking advantage of rubygems/defaults/operating_system is especially =
odd to me as it would allow upgrades of RubyGems to continue to work =
while maintaining Debian's customizations.  Last I checked the only =
changes made to RubyGems by Debian could be encapsulated in this one =
file.

PPS:

Maybe you get so much sarcasm and nasty comments because people are =
genuinely frustrated with what Debian provides by default.  Maybe =
installing ruby-full by default instead of the minimal ruby will reduce =
your frustrations.

Oftentimes people are following instructions they found on the web that =
were written for non-Debian/Ubuntu.  On OS X, BSD, and most other Linux =
versions those instructions will work without modification, but since =
Debian is subtly different they end up coming here and we end up =
answering the same questions over and over, which will inevitably lead =
to us making sarcastic, nasty comments.

=46rom maintaining RubyGems I've learned that maintaining a large, =
popular open-source library requires a thick skin and the ability to say =
"yeah, what I'm doing is not what people want" sometimes.=