A lot of people said some interesting things were thrown out. Maybe some contributors are concerned about a problem that doesn't relate to the issue. Eleanor is pretty close, as far as I can tell, to demonstrating that we, as a species, "are" a product of some kind of evolution, and that we don't have to be scared of it. We just may well run a race faster than Earth. I agree with that. I agree with Phlip, too. I also agree with many things Chad and Robert said. I disagree with the interpretation of chaos theory, and also of basically non-linear subjects at all that have been mentioned here. For humans, as a species, to really -- as a whole -- think we have control over cosmological events is not only pompous, but a severe look at what we have become. The first time I heard the Malthusian argument in school, I wrote a paper about it. I got an F because I disagreed with it. I'm a bit tired of the "We are creating our own disaster type thing." It's a vicious circle that almost creates itself. One thing I've learned during my short time on Earth is that people will _always_ feel the doomsday coming. Just look at history. I, for one, am looking to see something like vertical farms. With that said, I'm also a fan of people doing some permaculture as a benefit, and not as a stance of how we should live with some sort of absolution. Todd