Too long, didn't read On Jan 8, 2009, at 9:19 PM, Tim Greer <tim / burlyhost.com> wrote: > Larz wrote: > >>> >>> At this point, most language debates come down to opinion and >>> assumption. I don't believe that Perl is an old language that's >>> going >>> to fade away, while ruby becomes more popular. But, that's just my >>> own >>> view/opinion. I wasn't saying it because it's more mature and has >>> some >>> existing modules that maybe don't exist for Ruby or anything. I >>> might be wrong about how in demand Perl will or will not be, just >>> like my >>> opinion abut ruby and other languages. Neither opinion will make it >>> more or less likely, so we'll all have to see. Just remember, there >>> are plenty of new jobs in Perl, too (not just older code people are >>> hired to maintain). >>> -- >> >> There will be work in perl for many years no doubt, before I found >> out about ruby I had many perl books and was up in the air if I'd >> rather look for work in Java or Perl, but I would characterize perl >> this way: >> >> >> There's programmers who like to believe ruby is just hype and some >> sort of cult and don't want to spend the time to learn something new >> or even just find out about it, they have a strong attachment to what >> they already know. >> >> There are many people who have no interest in learning anything new >> if they have to spend their own time and money studying it. They will >> only learn new things if the company tells them to or sends them to a >> class, or maybe if they are desperate and need to find a job. >> >> Managers who see training people in new things or asking them to >> learn new things as something of a problem .. They want to hire >> people >> who have all the skills they need and try to stick with whatever >> skill >> sets their workers already have. People trying to advocate new >> technology may be ostracized. I worked with a number of people who >> refused to learn perl and wanted to do everything with shell scripts, >> and they wrote giant unwieldy ugly shell scripts that where totally >> laughable, and yet management accepted their lame explanations of why >> it would take them several weeks to get some project to work >> correctly. I could not say anything to the contrary as it was all >> political and I would have gotten in trouble. >> >> Then there are sysadmins who write an occasional perl script and have >> no real incentive to go beyond that, that may be fairly >> understandable >> as long as they don't have to develop alot of large apps. >> >> So there maybe alot of legacy perl code out there, and all of the >> people mentioned above are not really programmers who have their >> heart >> in programming enough to want to use the best technology and try to >> excel towards excellence in development based on object oriented >> programming and paradign that's validity can't be denied, though they >> will try to anyway. >> >> Sometimes you are stuck on a machine that the admins won't let you >> install what you want to use, but other than that I would never want >> to work at a company that wanted to develop some new app in perl. >> >> If the economy was to be so bad that you had to learn old technology >> to get a job, that would seem sad, though the IT industry has all >> kinds of ups and downs. One year you might hear college students are >> shying away from CS because of the poor IT sector, a few years later >> they'll say IT jobs are the future .. > > Your entire response is based on your own opinions. I don't recall > care > if people like is dislike any certain language, but just like saying > people in other languages claim ruby is all hype, there are those that > buy into the claim that languages like Perl are fading away -- > especially when you say things like "I would never want to work at a > company that wanted to develop some new app in perl." That's > preposterous. You can replace Perl in that sentence with PHP, C, C++, > Python, Java, etc. It's all personal view. > > In fact, one could say the same thing about another language and use > "ruby" in the example of "never wanting to work at a company that uses > ruby". The passion, ignorance and arrogance regarding "language wars" > goes both ways. It's pretty short sighted to call Perl "old > technology" because you happen to like Ruby more. I don't know why > people can't be more reasonable and less biased. I prefer Perl, but > I'm not here talking badly about ruby -- I'm here because I use it, > too. Therefore, there's no reason to get defensive or think you need > to slam another language. Perl is hardly old, just because it's > older. > Ruby has been around for a very long time as well, so I guess by your > logic, it's technically ran its course, too? > > Seriously, who cares? No one said the OP should learn Perl instead of > ruby, and of course there will be support and bias toward ruby, since > this is a ruby group. It's all about choice and preference. If you > want to get down to the base of the debate that appears to have > evolved > from the question (big surprise there), then people shouldn't be > encouraged to use a different language just because someone else finds > it interesting, or because it is newer (that doesn't make it better). > That's usually the reason why, and people shouldn't drop the idea of > developing a project in languages they know well, just to code in a > newer language someone else is excited about. The project should be > coded the most efficient, secure and stable as possible, which means > sticking to what you know. If you know ruby better, use ruby. If you > have the time and find ruby interesting, learn it anyway. It never > hurts to get good at something you might not be good at now (in which > case a lot of people could actually benefit from learning Perl, or > PHP, > or Java, if they know ruby and have the desire and motivation to learn > something else). > > As for legacy code, there are a lot of languages that have legacy > code, > some not very good -- and that includes ruby. Some people can code > well and some can not. Some people abandon code and some do not. I > really fail to see how one has to do with another. If you like heavy > OO type programming languages, then yeah, ruby would probably suit you > better than Perl or PHP. If you don't agree or don't care, then there > are a lot of other languages that work equally as well, which aren't > going anywhere. In closing, check the statistics and there are a lot > more larger sites that most people online use daily that are developed > in Perl (yes, new code developed today and more yesterday), being so > much for your theory that you'd not work for any company that > developed > new applications in Perl. You may as well denounce any new > applications coded in Python, PHP, C, C++, Java, too. I get it, you > like ruby, you don't care for Perl, that's fine with me, but keep the > claims on level and fair. There's no anti-ruby witch hunting in this > thread, so practice what you preach. Since no one's coming up with > untrue reasons why ruby isn't for them, why state your opinion about > Perl as being factual? Don't be so closed minded that you trash talk > languages you don't agree with, because it makes you no better than > the > Perl programmers you mention whom unfairly trash talk ruby. They are > both good languages and neither are going anywhere. > -- > Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc. > Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers > and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers. > Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle! >