>> additionally tests prove things on a very abstract level. if the >> wright brothers had spent a bunch of time with RSpec they would have >> theoretically proved their model of a cylinder would have enough > > You mean "Unit Tests", right? The term "tests" encompasses manual > tests, unit tests, functional tests, integration tests, usability well, i guess you could say looking at things in a browser is part of "testing" but thats not the point of this discussion? i came to ruby cos i like to realize ideas quickly. premature test cases is like premature optimization. making a change means fixing a bunch of failing tests... in the first 24 hours of a project, where you *know* things are likely to change a lot, then testing + coding is close to 2X the work. if you're working on a billing system for a bank, or a demo for a flying pumpkin that blows up at midnight, the needs are completely different. but i think the prevailing opine that tests somehow give you more freedom is relative to your event horizon. /dc