Dang, Brian, you surely do not pull your punches. I found what you said to be clear, polite and very much to the point. Thanks for saying this kind of thing which needs occasional reinforcement. As to the question itself, each client server application seems to implement SQL standards in a non standard way. That is to say that there is always some proprietary bit here or there. The SQL in oracle might be: select * from mytable where rownum = 123 and have the ruby random number generator insert a random value. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.