On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Eivind Eklund <eeklund / gmail.com> wrote: > My claim wasn't that reasoning about the system is not subject to > Goedel's incompleteness theorem - it is. Ah, I see. > It was that the properties > that was described as being a result of Goedel's incompleteness > theorem was in fact not related to that theorem. That state proving > is impossible in the case of an infinite memory computer and often > infeasible the case of finite memory computers is, to the best of my > knowledge, a fully separate result. I just looked up Wikipedia on the halting problem[1] - I quote: "...any finite-state machine, if left completely to itself, will fall eventually into a perfectly periodic repetitive pattern. The duration of this repeating pattern cannot exceed the number of internal states of the machine..." which agrees with your statement, though the article continues: Minsky warns us, however, that machines such as computers with e.g. a million small parts, each with two states, will have on the order of 21,000,000 possible states: "This is a 1 followed by about three hundred thousand zeroes ... Even if such a machine were to operate at the frequencies of cosmic rays, the aeons of galactic evolution would be as nothing compared to the time of a journey through such a cycle" (Minsky p. 25) Minsky exhorts the reader to be suspicious -- although a machine may be finite, and finite automata "have a number of theoretical limitations": "...the magnitudes involved should lead one to suspect that theorems and arguments based chiefly on the mere finiteness [of] the state diagram may not carry a great deal of significance" (ibid). When you consider that 1 million bits is about 128K, that is a sobering thought. Regards, Sean [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem#Common_pitfalls