On Nov 27, 3:24 pm, Trollen Lord <trollenl... / gmail.com> wrote: > Note: parts of this message were removed by the gateway to make it a legal Usenet post. > > > But you are complaining about the general state of affairs; not > > anything ruby specific. As my posts demonstrated (I think) the ruby > > toolkit bindings are on par with the state of the art; whether that > > Yes, BINDINGS are on par. However... > > The state of the art? I'd say Shoes is that. It is dumb. Very dumb. But what > being dumb means is that there is a promise of separating the "this is what > I want" and "this is how I want to see it" from each other. It has been done > in other technologies like the web (html vs css) ages ago already and it has > major advantages. Shoes doesn't do it yet technically (nor ever will I > think?) but take a look at how you define the GUIs. It wouldn't be hard > removing the Cairo dependency and making it more dynamic. THAT is state of > the art and would make defining most of the GUIs a wonderful and Rubyish > process. You might be interested in XULRunner [1] from the Mozilla foundation (i.e., the dudes who make firefox). XUL is already a cross-breed between markup and GUI, and works on the "big three" OS's as it comes. It's actually very easy to use if you know HTML/XML. The main drawback is that it requires JavaScript to drive it (inc. DCOM, XPCOM). XULPlanet.com has in-depth documentation however. [2]. I have no problem with JS, but some people hate it. [1] http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XULRunner [2] http://xulplanet.com/ > They do in Vista32. Which I am using at this moment. I don't have very many > things to complain about actually and have not bumped into even one single > application myself yet that would not have worked. But I think that is > irrelevant path to start discussing further. In any case, Vista seems to be > closer to 10% adoption rate and somewhere perhaps near 20% (just a quick > quess, although it is possible to estimate really accurately and reliably - > there are methods for that if you have complete marketing data from longer > period) there is the tipping point. After that it will be landslide. That > 10% from roughly 1,3 billion computers is 130 millions already. We are not > talking small "markets" here in any case. I don't question the market share! And obviously, monkey-makers like WoW are going to be updated to work *no matter what* ("OMG! LOL!! LOLZ!! PWNED!"). But apps of lesser importance like FileZilla FTP Server, aren;t guaranteed to work. My point was simply this; you can't use a relatively new platform to hold against toolkits that took years to integrate with the old platform. The standard is still the old platform, the new, is, well...new! Regards, Jordan