On Oct 15, 7:55 am, Jeremy Henty <onepo... / starurchin.org> wrote: > On 2007-10-15, Chad Perrin <per... / apotheon.com> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2007 at 01:35:03PM +0900, Jeremy Henty wrote: > >> On 2007-10-15, Jon Lambert <jlsys... / hotmail.com> wrote: > > >> > Jeremy Henty wrote: > > >> >> The GPL gives the *user* *complete* freedom. It restricts *other* > >> >> activities, such as distributing a derived work, but it imposes no > >> >> restrictions on simply using the software. > > >> > Using that limited definition of user, one who "simply uses the > >> > software", most proprietary licenses also give the user complete > >> > freedom. > > >> Including the freedom to install and run the software *without* paying > >> anything for it? I think not. And at my last office job I didn't see > >> any proprietary software whose license did not restrict either the > >> number of installation hosts or the number (total or concurrent) of > >> users. GPL software has no such usage restrictions. > > > Considering we were talking about "freedom", > > Chad, *I* was responding to someone's direct reply to one of my > comments. It's not relevant that you thought "we" were talking about > something else. > > > ... I didn't think we were talking about "free cost". > > The right to do some things for free is a pretty important freedom. > Or would you be happy having to pay $1000 to vote? Anyway, I > mentioned (and you conveniently ignored) several other freedoms. And > other posters have mentioned more. > > > The user does not necessarily get "complete freedom" (for instance, > > I'm in the odd position of having a bunch of GPLed software on a > > shelf that I cannot legally give away for free, > > Irrelevant. My point was that *usage* is not restricted. And it > isn't. > > > I'm just trying to stick to the cold, hard facts of the matter. > > You most definitely are *not*, otherwise you would not have accused me > of: > > > ... simply applying the blanket term Freedom to all things GPL and > > defend it to your last breath -- as you seem to be gearing up to do. > > Why don't *you* "stick to the cold, hard facts of the matter." rather > than spreading rumours about what I "seem to be gearing up to do."? > Meanwhile I'll stick to defending what I actually *said*. Life's too > short to waste time on other people's silly fantasies about my > motives. Uh oh. We were doing so well! A potentially flaming subject kept to a congenial ember. Tell you what. Lets now take a different bent: Here is what I think I learned from this thread. 1) Licensing can be complicated ;) 2) Unless you have specific reasons to do otherwise pick a very simple one like MIT. Specific reasons are either: 1) I demand all derivative works also be OSS. 2) This software is mine mine mine (non-OSS or partial-OSS) 3) Another lib, that I must use, is forcing my hand. 3) Ruby license is not a good license to use, but unfortunately so many Rubyists have used it we are kind of stuck with it --see 2.3 above. Thankfully, clause 4 of the license gets us out of point 2.1 (barely?). T.