On 4/26/07, Steve Molitor <stevemolitor / gmail.com> wrote: > The two hurdles to using Ruby more at my company are convincing my > boss, and convincing the developers. My boss is worried about the > usual stuff: staffing, training, scalability, etc. You've helped me > with the staffing and training issues, and we can do some benchmarking > to test scalability. (Rails should scale just fine for our needs.) Depends on what your needs are, but with modern hardware you can usually go a long way before you hit scalability ceiling, far enough for most web sites and business apps. > The objections are that Ruby is > not used or accepted enough in the corporate world, and that learning > Ruby won't help them make more money or more marketable (in the St. > Louis corporate world). I don't know about St.Louis, but personally I've been getting job offers roughly once a month since a year and half ago. Even though there isn't much Ruby in the city where I live, and I'm not even soliciting those job opportunities (I mean, I'm not looking for an indie gig for myself; ThoughtWorks is always on a lookout for Ruby work). There is a market for Ruby, and it is growing fast. Having Ruby on your CV now, if nothing else, marks you as a forward-looking technologist in the eyes of knowledgeable employers who watch industry trends. > If corporations start explicitly looking for > Ruby developers they'll learn it, but not until then. Like someone else said earlier in the thread, people with this attitude to new technologies really belong in the legacy/maintenance world (and will do just fine there). Should your IT strategy be driven by an effect it would have on someone's employability by *some other company*, anyway? > something is going to succeed Java, Java is very well entrenched, nothing is going to completely displace it any time soon. Ruby partially displacing Java to a significant degree (and perhaps completely displacing PHP) is a trend that we are already observing in ThoughtWorks customer base. We mostly work with large corporations. > Personally I'm not concerned about what the next big thing might be; In ThoughtWorks, we are obviously betting on Ruby, but we are a relatively large software consultancy, and it's not the only possible Next Big Thing we are betting on. Making this sort of bets is part of our business. Corporate IT departments, however, do not need to speculate about such things. The right question for you, guys, is: "(1) is Ruby big enough and (2) will it become obsolete within the lifespan of our application?". The answer to that question, from where I sit, looks like a certain "yes to (1), no to (2)" since about a year and half ago. Assuming that your planned application lifespan is less than 20 years, that is. By the way, my personal crystal ball also says that Java will be obsolete a good few years before Ruby. But that's just speculation again. > I have trouble understanding the narrow, strictly mercenary and > corporate focused point of view. Any ideas on convincing these folks? Convincing late adopters to adopt is an uphill battle probably not worth fighting. Instead, convince decision-makers that mercenary view is irrelevant to company interests, and do not include those people in the Ruby project team, at least not in the beginning. Corporate-focused view, on the other hand, is entirely appropriate. In many business IT scenarios, you really need fast time to market above everything else. If you are like that, Ruby is presently one of your best available choices. -- Best regards, Alex Verkhovsky ThoughtWorks