I failed to see one impact of where to put the initial freezer so far. Now that I have eventually looked at James' movie - great job James, really nice - I imagine that it might indeed be a nice thing to start the freezing process somewhere else than in the center of the *viewscreen* that might nicely show how frost growth extends to the other extremity of the viewscreen. OTOH if someone can make a 3D movie of frost growth on a real torus :-D Just an idea. Cheers Robert -- We have not succeeded in answering all of our questions. In fact, in some ways, we are more confused than ever. But we feel we are confused on a higher level and about more important things. -Anonymous