On Dec 19, 2006, at 2:00 PM, Paul Lutus wrote:

> James Edward Gray II wrote:
>
>> On Dec 19, 2006, at 7:52 AM, Jeremy McAnally wrote:
>>
>>> This is why many times there will be "xxx-talk" (or "xxx-users") and
>>> "xxx-newbie" lists.  I think perhaps Ruby has reached that "critical
>>> mass" point where this split is in order (even though i'm sure this
>>> has been discussed a number of times and decided against).
>>
>> I was on perl-beginners for years.  When I came to the Ruby community
>> I asked for the equivalent, but many members felt it wasn't needed or
>> even desired.  While I think I came around to their point of view
>> over time, I'm not sure it still holds.
>>
>>> Though, many would probably argue that "no experienced programmer
>>> would visit the newbie list."
>>
>> I've seen this argument multiple times, but it certainly doesn't hold
>> true in the Perl community.  See perl-beginners and Perl Monks.
>> Plenty of knowledgeable help on both.  I enjoy helping others and
>> stayed on the list to do so when I was past the beginner stage, as
>> just one example.
>>
>>> To make this whole thing effective, though, the residents of this  
>>> list
>>> would have to be stringent about telling people to "take it to the
>>> newbies" if their question is something that belongs there.
>>
>> Now this I don't feel is needed or desired.  I don't think we want to
>> start turning anyone away, period.  There's no reason questions can't
>> still be answered here.
>
> I've had this debate in a number of forums for different languages  
> over the
> years, and I have always taken your position on this. If a newbie  
> newsgroup
> were to be set up, IMHO it would decrease the quality of the  
> replies to
> newbies, and in some cases lead to a "blind leading the blind"  
> syndrome.
>
> Also, where this has been tried, it sometimes leads to newbies  
> gradually
> abandoning the newbie newsgroup because of the poor quality of  
> replies and
> also to avoid the stigma of posting to a newbie newsgroup.

Again, see perl-beginners and Perl Monks.  This just isn't the case  
there, though that is the extent of my experience in this area.

James Edward Gray II