James Edward Gray II wrote:

> On Dec 19, 2006, at 7:52 AM, Jeremy McAnally wrote:
> 
>> This is why many times there will be "xxx-talk" (or "xxx-users") and
>> "xxx-newbie" lists.  I think perhaps Ruby has reached that "critical
>> mass" point where this split is in order (even though i'm sure this
>> has been discussed a number of times and decided against).
> 
> I was on perl-beginners for years.  When I came to the Ruby community
> I asked for the equivalent, but many members felt it wasn't needed or
> even desired.  While I think I came around to their point of view
> over time, I'm not sure it still holds.
> 
>> Though, many would probably argue that "no experienced programmer
>> would visit the newbie list."
> 
> I've seen this argument multiple times, but it certainly doesn't hold
> true in the Perl community.  See perl-beginners and Perl Monks.
> Plenty of knowledgeable help on both.  I enjoy helping others and
> stayed on the list to do so when I was past the beginner stage, as
> just one example.
> 
>> To make this whole thing effective, though, the residents of this list
>> would have to be stringent about telling people to "take it to the
>> newbies" if their question is something that belongs there.
> 
> Now this I don't feel is needed or desired.  I don't think we want to
> start turning anyone away, period.  There's no reason questions can't
> still be answered here.

I've had this debate in a number of forums for different languages over the
years, and I have always taken your position on this. If a newbie newsgroup
were to be set up, IMHO it would decrease the quality of the replies to
newbies, and in some cases lead to a "blind leading the blind" syndrome.

Also, where this has been tried, it sometimes leads to newbies gradually
abandoning the newbie newsgroup because of the poor quality of replies and
also to avoid the stigma of posting to a newbie newsgroup.

Such things as RoR and perhaps Windows-specific newsgroups (e.g. for
Excel-related posts), if/when justified by the amount of traffic, make more
sense because they remain open to general questions and are appropriately
focused, but only when the amount of traffic justifies creation of a new
newsgroup.

Digression. My biggest annoyance about this forum is the degree to which
posts are not properly disseminated. Sometimes I reply to a post and the
originator very clearly never sees the reply even though it appears in
Usenet, or I see a reply to a post, the original of which never appears on
the Usenet forum. Sometimes the latter case becomes one of seeing only one
side of an exchange.

This problem would be solved by making this forum a pure, old-style Usenet
newsgroup with no imperfect connections to other ways of reading and
posting, but that simple arrangement seems to be falling out of favor for
some reason in modern times.

-- 
Paul Lutus
http://www.arachnoid.com