On Tue, Sep 05, 2006 at 01:01:14PM +0900, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
> Chad Perrin wrote:
> > . . . this has prompted me to take a second look at SBCL.  Is it
> > entirely backward-compatible?  Does it provide the same additional
> > functionality (debugger, et cetera)?  How, technically, do CMUCL and
> > SBCL differ, in general?
> > 
> > I ask in case you have the answers off the top of your head.  If not, no
> > biggie -- I'm on my way to look up more information about SBCL so I can
> > compare them now.
> 
> I'm not sure about compatibility. CMUCL is Carnegie-Mellon University
> Common Lisp and SBCL is Steel Bank Common Lisp. Carnegie made his money
> in steel and Mellon made his money in banking, you see ...

I was not aware of that connection for the name of SBCL.  Wow, that's
amusing.


> 
> CMUCL is kind of big and unwieldy and difficult to extend, so SBCL arose
> to attempt to make things a little more "agile", if you will. For
> example, there's probably no hope of a Windows port of CMUCL, but there
> is one for SBCL.

Good to know.  I'd love to see a lot more software with its "open
source" licensing more along the lines of MIT/BSD/public domain become
more popular on all platforms, rather than seeing proprietary and GPL
software getting all the publicity and hype all the time.


> 
> As far as application speed is concerned, it's sort of a horse race
> between GCL and CMUCL. GCL wins some benchmarks, CMUCL wins some, and
> some are too close to call. Clisp is probably the most portable of the
> bunch -- it runs on nearly every UNIX and is installed with CygWin. I
> think there is a native Windows port too.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that GNU CLISP runs in something
absurd like 16MB of RAM -- a simply astoundingly small amount of memory.
That's a pretty neat trick for an ANSI standard implementation of pretty
much anything.


> 
> > Speaking of communities -- do you know of any mailing lists akin to
> > ruby-talk, or open community websites akin to PerlMonks?  What about
> > beginner mailing lists?  Extensive searching has turned up exactly one
> > general-purpose Common Lisp mailing list thus far, and I don't know
> > anything about the list yet beyond that.
> 
> Well ... I was on the CMUCL and SBCL developers' lists a while back, but
> I don't think I've ever frequented a "Lisp Beginners" mailing list. I'd
> start with "comp.lang.lisp" if you can stand the fact that most Lispniks
> think there really isn't another real programming language.

I don't mind the attitude -- I can just mentally route around it (my
bio-neural network is a bit like the Internet that way).  The problem I
have with that is that it's a newsgroup rather than a mailing list.

  A) I have yet to meet a newsreader that doesn't drive me up the wall.
  B) I don't need yet another "thing" to keep track of -- I'm trying to
  consolidate all my daily online communications (IMs notwithstanding)
  in email as much as possible so I don't have to make regular trips to
  other applications to get caught up.


> 
> I believed that myself a long time ago, until I discovered nobody was
> paying people to code in Lisp but Fortran and assembler would earn you a
> decent living.

Hey, that doesn't mean they're "real" programming languages.  Heh.


> 
> I also think a PDF of most of the book "Practical Common Lisp" is on
> line somewhere. I went and bought a hard copy anyway. It tells you how
> to do 21st century stuff like web servers in Lisp. :)

Someone on this list privately and kindly emailed me with the URL for
that.  I started reading the introduction this evening.  I may well buy
the hardcopy myself, if I like it enough.  I'm actually more likely to
purchase a technical book after I've already read it than before (take
note, Pragmatic Progammers: I'm your target market for stuff like the
Pickaxe Book's free-digital-and-paid-print versions).  The same was true
of music, until I just started boycotting all RIAA labels entirely.

. . . but that's a story for another day (and mailing list).

-- 
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ]
This sig for rent:  a Signify v1.14 production from http://www.debian.org/