M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: > I installed Eclipse once and was literally amazed at all the stuff it > can do. I wonder about a tool that is much more complex than the > artifacts one uses it to build, though. :) Just as a side note, I don't currently have Eclipse installed on my Gentoo Linux "development workstation". So, I did an "emerge -pv eclipse-sdk" to see what's involved, and edited the output file with Vim :) ... > app-shells/tcsh-6.14-r3 859 kB > dev-java/ant-core-1.6.2-r5 6,134 kB > dev-java/jakarta-regexp-1.3-r2 124 kB > dev-java/bsh-2.0_beta1-r1 303 kB > dev-java/libreadline-java-0.8.0-r1 75 kB > dev-java/jython-2.1-r6 1,271 kB > dev-java/jakarta-oro-2.0.8-r1 337 kB > dev-java/xml-commons-resolver-1.1 225 kB > dev-java/xml-commons-external-1.3.02 1,031 kB > dev-java/xjavac-20041208-r1 1 kB > dev-java/xerces-2.7.1 1,648 kB > dev-java/log4j-1.2.9 2,705 kB > dev-java/junit-3.8.1-r1 431 kB > dev-java/avalon-logkit-1.2 233 kB > dev-java/commons-logging-1.0.4-r1 98 kB > dev-java/commons-collections-3.1 1,110 kB > dev-java/commons-beanutils-1.6.1-r2 144 kB > dev-java/commons-net-1.2.2-r1 174 kB > dev-java/jdepend-2.8.1 377 kB > dev-java/jzlib-1.0.5 48 kB > dev-java/gnu-crypto-2.0.1 3,804 kB > dev-java/jsch-0.1.18 190 kB > dev-java/bcel-5.1-r2 12,338 kB > dev-java/servletapi-2.3-r2 124 kB > dev-java/bsf-2.3.0-r2 1,021 kB > dev-java/javacup-0.10k 186 kB > dev-java/xalan-2.7.0-r1 6,117 kB > dev-java/antlr-2.7.5-r2 1,597 kB > dev-java/rhino-1.5.5-r2 1,505 kB > dev-java/ant-tasks-1.6.2-r9 0 kB > dev-java/ant-1.6.2-r6 0 kB > dev-util/eclipse-sdk-3.0.1-r3 54,314 kB > > Total size of downloads: 98,540 kB For those of you unfamiliar with Gentoo, that's *compressed* data, source or binary, depending on the nature of the package. Most of the time it's source, but that might well be different for Java. Ah, but *nobody* uses boring stable old Eclipse 3.0.1 any more! How about Eclipse 3.2? > www-client/seamonkey-1.0.3 35,022 kB > dev-java/javatoolkit-0.1.9 20 kB > dev-java/ant-core-1.6.5-r13 6,136 kB > dev-java/jakarta-regexp-1.3-r2 124 kB > dev-java/bsh-2.0_beta1-r1 303 kB > dev-java/libreadline-java-0.8.0-r1 75 kB > dev-java/jython-2.1-r6 1,271 kB > dev-java/jakarta-oro-2.0.8-r1 337 kB > dev-java/xml-commons-resolver-1.1 225 kB > dev-java/xml-commons-external-1.3.02 1,031 kB > dev-java/xjavac-20041208-r1 1 kB > dev-java/xerces-2.7.1 1,648 kB > dev-java/log4j-1.2.9 2,705 kB > dev-java/junit-3.8.1-r1 431 kB > dev-java/avalon-logkit-1.2 233 kB > dev-java/commons-logging-1.0.4-r1 98 kB > dev-java/commons-collections-3.1 1,110 kB > dev-java/commons-beanutils-1.6.1-r2 144 kB > dev-java/servletapi-2.3-r2 124 kB > dev-java/bsf-2.3.0-r2 1,021 kB > dev-java/jdepend-2.8.1 377 kB > dev-java/jzlib-1.0.5 48 kB > dev-java/gnu-crypto-2.0.1 3,804 kB > dev-java/jsch-0.1.18 190 kB > dev-java/bcel-5.1-r2 12,338 kB > dev-java/javacup-0.10k 186 kB > dev-java/xalan-2.7.0-r1 6,117 kB > dev-java/commons-net-1.2.2-r1 174 kB > dev-java/antlr-2.7.5-r2 1,597 kB > dev-java/ant-core-1.6.2-r5 6,134 kB > dev-java/rhino-1.5.5-r2 1,505 kB > dev-java/ant-tasks-1.6.2-r10 0 kB > dev-java/ant-1.6.2-r6 0 kB > dev-java/lucene-1.4.3 750 kB > virtual/jdk-1.5.0 0 kB > dev-java/ant-tasks-1.6.5-r2 0 kB > dev-util/eclipse-sdk-3.2 80,120 kB > > Total size of downloads: 165,416 kB Ruby may or may not nead an IDE, but does it nead an IDE *that* big? Incidentally, I saw tools for C/C++ and Python go by when I searched the repository for Eclipse, but I *didn't* see anything for Ruby! IIRC RadRails is an Eclipse plugin. There's something vaguely disconcerting about people who left Java web development bloatware for the lightness and agility of Rails having a Rails IDE that plugs into Java web development bloatware. <ducking>