In comp.lang.java.advocacy, Otis Bricker <obricker / my-dejanews.com> wrote on Wed, 05 Jul 2006 18:55:16 -0500 <Xns97F7CAA5F86EAobrickermydejanewsco / 216.196.97.136>: > "Oliver Wong" <owong / castortech.com> wrote in > news:W9Xqg.131093$771.114444@edtnps89: > >> Thanks, that was interesting. >> >> It sounds like, a best, the Java team and the C# team were >> essentially >> developping generics at the same time. So I don't think what happened >> was the Java people were like "Oh crap, C# has generics! We better get >> it in Java ASAP!" Rather, I think there was a lot of academic research >> of generics at the time, and both teams (coincidentally?) felt "now" >> would be a good time to implement generics into their languages, where >> "now" is 1.5 for Java, and 2.0 for C#. >> >> > > Check out http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=14 > > The basics were there for Generics long before they shipped. As JSR 14, it > was one of the first changes proposed and Example implementations were > available in the form of GJ and PolyJ back in 1998. > > OB Wow. If I'm reading this correctly generics were kicking about before the turn of the millennium. :-) The public review process, however, took more than 3 years -- which is probably a reflection of the desires to ensure they're doing it more or less right and/or "do no harm" more than anything else, I would guess. (Java w/generics still has quirks, though...but they're like int <-> Integer: one can live with them for now. I still remember C++ being able to assign to 'this', so C++ evolved; Java will, too.) Of course COOL is right in there, though probably without generics: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,39020351,2070806,00.htm is a puff-piece about "a java Alternative", dated 1999-02-15: One developer believes, and hopes, that Cool will not be cross-platform. "There are a lot of developers who say Java has lost momentum," said Mike Sax, president of Sax Software. "If anything, making [Cool] not cross-platform seems like a smaller risk than going along with the Sun ruling and letting Sun call the shots." If Microsoft makes Cool a product, the company will have a sizeable challenge in gaining market acceptance, other developers said. "Java is entrenched and is appreciated by a whole group of people out there who don't want to be tied to Microsoft for everything," said the Windows developer. "The world doesn't really need an alternative to Java from Microsoft." Hmmm....when did Java lose momentum? Somehow, I missed it; seems to me it's been chugging right along. ;-) Of course, it's far from clear that Java is really "cross-platform", either -- it's the JVMs which have been ported to multiple host types and operating systems. Java, for its part, is a language and library, and sort of sits above it all. :-) Once the JVM is ported, assuming no bugs...Java and a whole mess o' utilities and stuff can just come right in and make themselves at home, and they don't care a fig how the JVM does it, as long as the JVM does the right thing when needed. I think .NET tries to do the same, and succeeds to some extent. But Java was there first, and was probably better designed; certainly it knew sandboxing before ActiveX came along, botching it. -- #191, ewill3 / earthlink.net Windows Vista. Because it's time to refresh your hardware. Trust us.