On 18 Mar 2006, at 16:38, ssmoot / gmail.com wrote:

> It could possibly result in a fast, (hopefully with Mono)
> cross-platform Ruby VM.
>
> More importantly, it would hopefully give Ruby native threads, and
> robust database drivers. Two things it's really hurting for IMO.

It would also, if I understand .NET properly, mean that if somebody  
says "I have this .NET app written in C# and need a new bunch of  
functionality adding to it, can you help?" you can turn up and extend  
that app, add methods to those objects, the whole lot, all within Ruby.

In other words, by not lifting a finger, we all become .NET developers.

Useful for paying the rent, if you ask me. :-)

> There are lots of potential downsides, like the whole "embrace &
> extend", especially since .NET development is so _incredibly_ complex
> for complexity's sake right now. It'd be a real shame to see that
> mindset penetrate Ruby. But no need to be negative. Ruby is Ruby, and

MS have been well-behaved in this regard for a couple of years now  
and are getting better.

In the same way that most kids graduating from college in the last  
few years have no memory of the Berlin Wall, they don't understand  
"proprietary standards". MS is hiring them, they're making calls,  
we're winning. :-D

> unless MS plays nice, any Ruby.NET "official" implementation won't be
> anymore the thing that MS forces on the Ruby community than IronPyton
> is the thing that MS forces on the Python community. That is to  
> say, if
> you like Python, and work with .NET, you probably appreciate that
> there's an IronPython, but IronPython isn't the "official" Python, and
> it's not what all the books and community are about.

Story I'm reminded of, which may be urban myth, but I seriously hope  
it isn't:

MS demo'ing a load of Unix Services for Windows stuff back in the  
1990s. One of the big pitches was their native version of ksh. So  
they demo the whole Korn shell thing, proudly showing off in front of  
a room full of invited top-flight geeks.

They get to the end of the demo and this guy at the back of the room  
starts pointing out that it wasn't ksh93 compliant (or even ksh88),  
that it just wasn't ksh at all, just a poor imitation. The MS exec  
starts arguing, insisting that they are completely compliant, and the  
guy just shouts back that it isn't, taking it apart piece by piece by  
piece.

This goes round in circles with the guy at the back arguing it just  
isn't anything like ksh, MS exec arguing it is completely ksh. After  
a few minutes of this, a guy on the front row of the audience leans  
forward and says to the MS exec "You know the guy you're arguing with  
is David Korn, right?"

Priceless.

--
Paul Robinson