On Oct 6, 2005, at 8:17 AM, Kevin Brown wrote: > I didn't decide this terminology, and it may disagree with what > many say on the subject. That's fine, it's the terminology I > learned, and that's all. No worries. I'm not arguing either; I was simply helping to clarify that those terms mean different things in the Ruby world. > I would call that deep as well, I'm just not used to having deep to > a certain > level copies as it's hard to achieve in C++. You either get a > reference or a > full copy tree. I suppose it's not trivial in Ruby either, which is why we have the Marshal dump/load 'hack'.