I've been trying to persuade my teacher friends to use Ruby to teach their kids. The bottom line for most of them is that they need to have turtle graphics. If I knew TK I might attempt it myself, but I don't and so the learning curve would be way too big. Anyone out there want to take it on? Getting it into the schools is a really good way to help a language catch on. -- meredith --Half a wit is better than none.