In article <4231E1F2.3090503 / path.berkeley.edu>,
Joel VanderWerf  <vjoel / PATH.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>David Heinemeier Hansson wrote:
>>> Ruby: 2 years, responsible for at least one project of >10K
>>>       lines. (Strong Lisp/SmallTalk background may be an
>>>       acceptable substitute.)
>> 
>> 
>
>Regarding years: note that the announcement mentioned the equivalence of 
>Lisp/SmallTalk. I had hoped that the implication was for the applicant 
>to be comfortable with closures, recursion, metaprogramming, 
>concurrency, etc.: in short, a basic understanding of most of SICP 
>(oops, another acronym). I should have said that to begin with...
>
>Regarding program size: I disagree. Our application is large because our 
>subject matter is large in an irreducible way. The app needs to interact 
>with 3rd party software that has its own highly complex (and often 
>poorly designed) input/output system. It needs to do a large variety of 
>geometrical calculations (not difficult ones). The programmer for this 
>job needs to be comfortable with managing a large number of ugly 
>details. That skill is distinct (though of course not exclusive) from 
>writing a lovely little ruby library.
>

It does seem to me that LORC (Lines of Ruby Code) tends to be much 
smaller than LOC++C (Lines of C++ Code), for any given equivilent 
functionality.  In my experience LORC = 1/((4..6)*LOC++C). I can also see 
that Joel might have a lot of functionality to implement.  

Joel, is it possible that you would consider people who 
have a good handle on Ruby and have worked on projects which consisted of 
20K+ LOC where LOC could be a mixture of C++ or Java as well as 
Ruby?

I've done a couple of Ruby projects for pay and in neither case did we 
get past about 4K lines of Ruby.  One in particular involved 
some computational geometry.  Most of the code base was in C++ 
because we needed speed (about 25K lines as I recall) which we wrapped 
with SWIG so we could script our tool from Ruby.  We had about 4K lines 
of Ruby code (including unit tests for the C++ classes) and ~25K lines of 
C++.

Joel: Just to clarify: would a project with 25K LOC++C and 4K LORC 
qualify?  I'm trying to figure out if you're looking specifically for 
LORC or if you're looking for experience with handling large projects in 
whatever language.

Phil