Steven Jenkins wrote:
> trans. (T. Onoma) wrote:
> 
>> Yet, I know some people, like yourself, feel this way about ruby-talk. 
>> So I have tried multiple times to get a separate mailing list 
>> invigorated for this very purpose. But none of the major players will 
>> back it, and as long as that is the case it just won't fly, and these 
>> discussions _will_ continue here. I can only assume that the Ruby 
>> community is just to small to support the division of lists.
> 
> For the record, I'm not saying such discussions are out of place, nor 
> suggesting they be taken elsewhere. I've been reading Usenet and its 
> descendants since 1984, and I know it's a lot easier to ignore stuff you 
> don't like (or don't approve of) than to add a layer of meta-argument 
> about whether you ought to be having the argument.

I concur. As an aside, I'm additionally frustrated by the inverted nature
of the competence-vs-verbosity graph. Not referring to any specific
individuals, I have noted a tendency over the years for the more knowledgeable
people to keep silent on such matters, while the dilettantes and nubies and
script kiddies wax eloquent on how Ruby should be changed. (Again, I am
speaking of the past five years, not the past five days.) Of course, there are
counter-examples.

> I'm just trying to encourage more discussion of hacking *in* Ruby, as 
> opposed to hacking *on* Ruby.

I like that, too. Again it seems upside-down to me: I'd like 80% "in" and
20% "on"; but often it seems the other way around.

But my approach, for what little it's worth, is the same as in other areas
of life. When there's too much A and not enough B, and I can't or shouldn't
decrease the amount of A, then I can at least increase the amount of B.

Among other assumptions, that's assuming we don't go beyond some reasonable
upper limit for A+B. :)

So my $0.02 is this:

   - I like the quizzes, as they typically involve using Ruby as-is
   - I like nuby questions (esp. from nubies who haven't learned enough Ruby
     to want to change it, or those who have finally learned enough that they
     don't want to change it as much as they used to)
   - I like the "How do I do this?" questions. There is a book based on that
     paradigm, you know.
   - I like the stuff that says: Hey, look what I did in Ruby without changing
     Ruby at all!
   - I like to see project announcements and new releases. Yes, even alpha
     versions. Yes, even in languages I can't read.
   - I like to hear Ruby success stories, where it's being used in the real
     world, how it solved a problem in ten minutes instead of ten hours, how
     it made someone's jaw drop.
   - I like seeing tutorials made and articles written, whether electron or
     dead tree.
   - I like seeing explanations of things that I understand marginally or not
     at all, like inversion of control in Ruby.
   - There are many other things I'm forgetting here. Ruby can, should, and will
     change, and that stuff needs to be discussed. But there is so much good stuff
     to talk about besides *changing* Ruby!

One man's signal is another man's noise. If you can't filter out all the noise,
boost the signal. Just my opinion.


Hal