Currently, the following code a = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] a[0, 3] returns [1, 2, 3] This is somewhat counter-intuitive. Since Ruby has a built-in range type, [] ought to take advantage of it. I propose that the [] operators be redefined so that this behavior can only be achieved by explicitly providing a Range, e.g. a[0...3]. The original code would then work like #values_at and return [1, 3]. Also, I don't know what happened with the earlier mention about the confusion between .. / ... but I'm a supporter of getting rid of '...' and just making .. inclusive. Exclusive ranges can be represented with 0..(n + 1) if necessary. I don't know if this is appropriate for an RCR. I think the above [] behavior is more in keeping with POLS and is slightly more intuitive than the current default. Obviously this suggestion (and the sub-suggestion about .. and ...) would break existing code. I don't know if RCR's are allowed to do that, but I'm just throwing this idea out there. Bill Atkins