Sean O'Dell [mailto:sean / celsoft.com] :
>> What I said was -- very clearly -- TESTS should be written to be
>> run in any arbitrary or random order. I didn't suggest that a
>> testing framework shouldn't be able to specify a particular test
>> running order. Frankly, I would love to be able to do:
>> 
>>    Test::Unit::Runner.order = :random
>> 
>> And *force* the tests to be run in a random order to ensure that
>> I am not introducing dependencies between test cases.
> First of all, that's YOUR opinion. Don't force it on anyone.

I'm not forcing it on anyone[1], but it isn't my opinion only. Just
within the Ruby community, look how many people have suggested that
tests should be considered independent of one another. I would be
surprised if unit testing gurus would argue otherwise, except in
very specific and very limited cases.

> You can't do that with Test/Unit right now, but you can certainly
> access the list of tests in celsoft.com/Battery and randomize them
> if you wish. Or put them alphabetically, etc. See how it gives you
> the choice?

Except that cs/Battery is, except for this one "feature", bereft of
any other usable functionality. As I said in another email: your
time would have been better spent providing Nathaniel with a patch
to do what you want here: (1) alternate outputters -- e.g., YAML or
XML and (2) user-choosable test execution ordering. This would have
been far better than adding another test framework to the Ruby world
that doesn't actually have anything *useful* to offer over
Test::Unit.

> Why are you arguing against any of this? You talk about how
> alphabetic is fine, tell me to stop being arrogant, then in the
> very same post ask for a specific way to order your tests! Do you
> want to control the ordering or not? Make up your mind.

I'm arguing against your attitude, mostly, but with a strong helping
of trying to educate the obstinate ignoramus (that's you). In the
last few weeks, you've been exceedingly rude, obstinate, arrogant,
and ignorant to the point of turning people off. You may not care,
but you are mocked elseplace for your attitude and arrogance. I have
seen little indication that what you say, do, or write is taken
seriously at all -- I know that I don't, because you have
demonstrated that not only don't you know what you're talking about,
but you're arrogant about it to boot. Ugly? Yeah. But I'm calling it
as I see it.

-austin
[1] Actually, I am. I am currently heading up the development of
    stuff at work that includes extensive unit testing and TDD, and
    I have dictated that tests must be considered completely
    independent of one another.
--
austin ziegler * austin.ziegler / evault.com