At 23:21 09/06/2004 +0900, you wrote:
>On Wednesday,  9 June 2004 at 23:02:22 +0900, Tom Copeland wrote:
>> On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 09:56, Michael Campbell wrote:
>> > On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 22:48:30 +0900, Tom Copeland <tom / infoether.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> > > > I'd be afraid to hire a code-monkey who said yes.
>> > > 
>> > > Hm.  Do you feel that there's a different calling to which a programmer
>> > > should aspire?  I mean... "architect", or some such?
>> > 
>> > Maybe not some specific calling, but one should have SOME aspiration
>> > to "move up/on" occasionally; I THINK that's what he was getting at.
>> 
>> Yup, I agree that that's what he was getting at.  But is "architect" the
>> sort of thing that one would move up to?  Or maybe "CIO" or some other
>> non-technical sort of thing?  
>> 
>> Or were you just thinking of "moving on" in the sense of moving to a
>> different type of programming - i.e., embedded vs web or some such?
>> 
>> I guess I'm just interested in exploring what folks think a programmer
>> should aspire to move on to.  
>> 
>
>At my company, we have two career tracks (called ladders):
>Technical and Managerial.
>
>You can be either an individual contributor, or a manager. :)
>Some tech people are team leads or may have direct reports,
>but they are not considered managers -- I'm not sure
>where the line is drawn.
>
>As for myself, I can't bring myself to aspire to a manager
>position yet. Maybe when I am older (like 80). There
>are some multi talented people out there, but I wonder if
>a good programmer can really aspire to a managerial postion.
>
>To be a good programmer, you really have to love what you do.
>How could someone aspire to move away from something they
>really love?
>
>-- 
>Jim Freeze
>No matter what other nations may say about the United States,
>immigration is still the sincerest form of flattery. 

I started a company in 1987. I believe that by 1993 we must
have been 15 people. I was a programmer. A version 2 of our
major product was starting. A year after I realized that there
was an issue. Informal communication was not working anymore.
Bug fixing was constantly delayed. Deadlines were missed.
I then realize that there was a need for somebody to organize
thing so that the product would survive. That is when I
became a manager I guess. A few years latter I was hired as
VP Engineerer of some startup. After the Internet bubble
explosion I worked fixing my old house. Now I am back to
programming. I have always loved that. But at some point I
really felt like there was a need for a manager, I loved
the result of programming (The Product) more than my
contributions to it and I kind of put aside my programming
pleasure to help the product succeed. That worked, very
well, I don't regret it at all.

Not mentioning the fact that as VP Engineerer, I was making
more money that will ever be possible for a programmer in
my country, France. I needed that money to fix my old house.

This story may give you some ideas about why somebody would
move away from something she/he really like.

Yours,

JeanHuguesRobert



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