At 23:21 09/06/2004 +0900, you wrote: >On Wednesday, 9 June 2004 at 23:02:22 +0900, Tom Copeland wrote: >> On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 09:56, Michael Campbell wrote: >> > On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 22:48:30 +0900, Tom Copeland <tom / infoether.com> wrote: >> > >> > > > I'd be afraid to hire a code-monkey who said yes. >> > > >> > > Hm. Do you feel that there's a different calling to which a programmer >> > > should aspire? I mean... "architect", or some such? >> > >> > Maybe not some specific calling, but one should have SOME aspiration >> > to "move up/on" occasionally; I THINK that's what he was getting at. >> >> Yup, I agree that that's what he was getting at. But is "architect" the >> sort of thing that one would move up to? Or maybe "CIO" or some other >> non-technical sort of thing? >> >> Or were you just thinking of "moving on" in the sense of moving to a >> different type of programming - i.e., embedded vs web or some such? >> >> I guess I'm just interested in exploring what folks think a programmer >> should aspire to move on to. >> > >At my company, we have two career tracks (called ladders): >Technical and Managerial. > >You can be either an individual contributor, or a manager. :) >Some tech people are team leads or may have direct reports, >but they are not considered managers -- I'm not sure >where the line is drawn. > >As for myself, I can't bring myself to aspire to a manager >position yet. Maybe when I am older (like 80). There >are some multi talented people out there, but I wonder if >a good programmer can really aspire to a managerial postion. > >To be a good programmer, you really have to love what you do. >How could someone aspire to move away from something they >really love? > >-- >Jim Freeze >No matter what other nations may say about the United States, >immigration is still the sincerest form of flattery. I started a company in 1987. I believe that by 1993 we must have been 15 people. I was a programmer. A version 2 of our major product was starting. A year after I realized that there was an issue. Informal communication was not working anymore. Bug fixing was constantly delayed. Deadlines were missed. I then realize that there was a need for somebody to organize thing so that the product would survive. That is when I became a manager I guess. A few years latter I was hired as VP Engineerer of some startup. After the Internet bubble explosion I worked fixing my old house. Now I am back to programming. I have always loved that. But at some point I really felt like there was a need for a manager, I loved the result of programming (The Product) more than my contributions to it and I kind of put aside my programming pleasure to help the product succeed. That worked, very well, I don't regret it at all. Not mentioning the fact that as VP Engineerer, I was making more money that will ever be possible for a programmer in my country, France. I needed that money to fix my old house. This story may give you some ideas about why somebody would move away from something she/he really like. Yours, JeanHuguesRobert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Web: http://hdl.handle.net/1030.37/1.1 Phone: +33 (0) 4 92 27 74 17