%$@#%$ i know i've abused this list with more questions than answers but i dont know who else to ask. I'm willing to set a phpBB for these stupid newby tricks and avoid some of this drivel if anyone is interested. I'd like to contribute something other than q's. A bb would better support things like 'why is ruby better than python', 'what makes a web app framework'- a section for those would work nicely and could get better over time and other questions that are redundant. Or has this been brought up. I like _using_ ruby but working in it's environment has really kicked my ass. Installation problems in particular. I'm still messing with mysql-ruby. I'm not giving up. I dont have the mysql.h header file on my system - perhaps installed through rpm? No developer pack. No header files. [root@u15154846 include]# locate mysql.h /usr/share/doc/courier-imap-1.7.3/README.authmysql.html /usr/share/doc/courier-imap-3.0.1/README.authmysql.html /usr/local/lib/mysql-standard-4.0.20-pc-linux-i686/include/mysql.h I have not installed mysql 4 above yet and when i point --with-mysql-include to that dir it still fails. Would this be the reason why i'm unable to get past extconf.rb, and ill it's iterations? ruby 1.81 redhat mysql-ruby 2.4.5 mysql 3.23 thanks paul