Dear Curt, I have been a silent reader of your posts about the impe(n)ding decision you have to take for either the MS VC++ or the mingw toolchain. Let's just sum up what has been said/can be said: - We need to go down either road *completely*. There seems to be no middle way. Or we could go down both roads, but would get stuck halfway (extension X being available for mswin builds, but not mingw builds, extension Y for mingw and not mswin, which to choose?). - Mingw certainly has less documentation, but puts us in 'control' of availability of compilers. - Microsoft seems to like the thought of you choosing MS VC++ publicly and assures you of their support. - Ara Howard makes a good point by saying that unless a library (ruby extension or not) is explicitly constructed to build under MS VC++, it will require a lot of fiddling to get it built. The MS toolchain is just () very different from a unix toolchain () inadequate (choose what you prefer). I have myself chosen mingw over MS VC++ because of that. - The same point can be made pro MS VC++ by saying that often, compilation of unix libs on mingw requires fiddling (and very unixish fiddling) too. I would wholly agree. - The vision a lot of people have is to bring us closer to the installers-only universe that python has successfully created. Only that we are divided between the two compilers. We risk loosing momentum on a wrong decision. I really can't add to that; I think your decision is a hard one to make and there isn't a concise list of pros and cons to chose from. I (personally and as the maintainer for RMagick windows build) would be ready to invest my time in the following setups: a. A 'pure' mingw build. This would be the best option for someone like me who likes using unix tools. b. A compiler farm setup with either mingw or MSVC++. We should be able to deal out logins / distribute virtual disk images. This setup would have to be maintained. Everything needs to be compiled there / using that virtual machine. Requires close collaboration and some funding. c. Going down both ways. Requires more manpower and may put us in either/or situations further along. RMagick would probably use mingw in this setup. Note that I currently know of no one that has succeded an RMagick build on a MS VC++ setup; but I am sure that this could be fixed given the proper time investment. I am grateful that you take the time to ask these questions. I hope I have advanced the discussion. best regards, Kaspar Schiess neotrivium.com - the swiss ruby shop