Issue #12004 has been updated by Vjatseslav Gedrovits.


> Please don't use kiss you or hug you or such kind of expression in an international community like here. 
> These words are ok (e.g. In my understanding, Russian people kiss each other for greeting like handshake) in some country and not ok in other
> (In US, there is wide consensus it's not ok).
> I don't ask your gender nor nationality. Instead, I'll ask you just don't do that. I don't recommend any of sexual word even if it is widely used as an idiom.
> 
> I understand you have no evil intention and I don't think this message should be deleted, but please choose your word carefully a bit more.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Disclaimer: this is not a warning from an admin. this is just my opinion.

This is one of the reasons. Different cultures, laws and definition of normal. In proposed document there are specific privileged groups, who will benefit from that.
In our lore this just means: 'I agree with you. You like took words from my mouth.' It's nothing to do with physical kisses of person.
So if this will be done, someone (contributors, maintainers) will need to decide who is right (and in this document we know who are). This leads to censorship and bureucracy.
To what can this lead? To the same thing, which happens in *some* (no direct names here, guess country by dialog below) countries.

Current proposal looks like this:
*sarcasm start ->*

> 1) Hey! You need democracy (insert what 1 needs, CoC in this case) guys! It's fun, we can do that for you.
> 2) No, we don't. Please go away and try build democracy (insert what 1 need, CoC in this case) in other places.
> 1) Nah, you just (insert X) and (insert Y). You can't have own opinion. We will deliver democracy to you, and set people who understand it's meaning in charge.
> 2) WTF?
> ... After razing other country to ashes and thousands of people lives ...
> 1) Hey! You see how good this country become with democracy? Our people rule gentle and good, you must be grateful!

*<- sarcasm end*

You can also look at this from a different view. This CoC group is like union (miners union, teachers union, etc). What union does? It forces and pushes things what benefit the union members. You can see this from the proposed document itself. People before pointed out this before, so no need to go on this. Look even on first message:

> RubyTogether also adopted a policy to only fund Ruby projects that had a solid code of conduct in place.

This mean, regardless of you paying to org, if your thoughts and opinions not agree with CoC they will not fund you. Isn't this a form of censorship? Isn't it too obvious?

> Our community prides itself on niceness. What a code of conduct does is define what we mean by nice. It states clearly that we value openness, courtesy, and compassion. That we care about and want contributions from people who may be different from us. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINASWAN It even states that we are nice.

> That we pledge to respect all contributors regardless of their *race*, *gender*, *sexual orientation*, or other factors. And it makes it clear that we are prepared to follow through on these values with action when and if an incident arises.

Why listing properties of contributors? This is again forced by union. Knowing those groups, this means that race must be non-white, gender non-male and sexual orientation non-hetero. So voila, they will have 'law' which must be 'forced' to oppose the people they don't like. The union, remember?

> As contributors and maintainers of this project, and in the interest of fostering an open and welcoming community, we pledge to respect all people who contribute through reporting issues, posting feature requests, updating documentation, submitting pull requests or patches, and other activities.

This looks not bad.

But next paragraph tries to describe properties of people, which ruins a whole point of 'all people who contribute' this already includes all listed 'features'.
The word harassment is used again. Stop using this already, it's not even close to real world examples of harassment: SWATing, stalking, etc. The maximum what you can get on Internet is someone, who swears or writes something you don't like. This is not harassment. Harassment term overused by specific groups nowadays.

> We are committed to making participation in this project a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of level of experience, gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, personal appearance, body size, race, ethnicity, age, religion, or nationality.

So we get list of unions protected, but we are not stopping, we continue to tighten the unions:

> The use of sexualized language or imagery

This is abstract, look the case of scientist shirt. It was totally OK in most countries, but not in one. Man have 4 kids, good family and he lost his job and reputation because of cowards in management, who just scared of 'rage' of groups felt 'harrased'.

> Personal attacks

Read the swearing part. This can be interpreted quite wildly. It's hard to separate this from feelings.

> Trolling or insulting/derogatory comments

Trolling is not good, but this is not thing to decline. Sometimes it's even fun to read. 
Insults varies on different people cultures. So again, without making someone sad, this should not be forced to match needs of few groups.

> Public or private harassment

Cases of real harassment should be handled by the laws of the country of victim. This is not for tech community to decide. Someone really harrases you? You can use your country laws on other citizens of your country.

> Publishing other's private information, such as physical or electronic addresses, without explicit permission

What is considered private in our days? If it can be found in Internet, this means you left this info to public and this is not private. Otherwise it must be governed by your country law on citizens of YOUR country, where law can be used.

> Other unethical or unprofessional conduct

This is good enough point, which is already covered in MINASWAN.

> Project maintainers have the right and *responsibility* to remove, edit, or reject comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other contributions that are not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban temporarily or permanently any contributor *for other behaviors that **they** deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful*.

Moderators have right currently to do so without CoC too. 
What will be added here, just additional work on trying to understand what is wrong, offensive or whatever. Time will be lost, which can be used on a OSS project. 
Look at the 'they' part, unions, remember?

> By adopting this Code of Conduct, project maintainers commit themselves to fairly and consistently applying these principles to every aspect of managing this project. Project maintainers *who do not follow or enforce the Code of Conduct* may be permanently removed from the project team.

In theory, by this rule Matz itself can be removed from the project, if will not follow / enforce this document. Yes, there is 'may' word, but who really cares about that? This can be forced in every case or by occasion, depends on union needs, remember?

> This Code of Conduct applies both within project spaces and in *public spaces* when an individual is representing the project or its community.


This has 'representing' part, but really, how you separate this? Matz known in Ruby world, who must decide when he is presenting or not? Union decides, right? When you say something they don't like, they just go witch hunt on you.

People who accepted this CoC gifting their rights to express themselves as they want outside the projects, to 3rd party which will decide good / wrong.
That they can't express something not 'popular' in places outside the project, without having risk to be removed from project, because unions can consider this as an insult to them. 
This lead to a situation, where posters here adding the 'I don't represent the community, this is my opinion', bla bla bla thing, to be protected from that. 
Anything that you say is de facto IMHO, you don't need to apologize for that or choose wording trying to make happy every possible union groups.

> Instances of abusive, harassing, or otherwise unacceptable behavior may be reported by contacting a project maintainer at [INSERT EMAIL ADDRESS]. *All complaints will be reviewed and investigated* and *will result in a response that is deemed necessary and appropriate to the circumstances*. 

All will be reviewed, investigated and result in 'necessary' action. Anyone wants to play Zeus here? Throw some lighting at people if you seem necessary.

> Maintainers are obligated to maintain confidentiality with regard to the reporter of an incident.

And this last part protects union members from being public. This is called 'whistleblowing'. 
There was time in Soviet history, when government thought this is good idea, to catch the spies, neighboor watch and all this. 
This resulted in a lot of people sending 'reports' on each other. With a quite human reasons. I don't like him. I want his apartment. I want his work place. He is X (insert other personal reason).
Private 'whistleblowing' leads to abuse of the systems and those 'whistleblowers' can feel themselves safe. 
The CoC can't protect them from it, does it? They don't want that people know who made this person disappear from the community and why. Because they are... scared?

George Orwell wrote good book, Animal Farm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm)
So I want to finish this with quote from it:
> ll animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
>  George Orwell, Animal Farm

If Matz will decide to have some specific rules, they should definitely not be based and/or linked to proposed CoC.

----------------------------------------
Misc #12004: Code of Conduct
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004#change-56699

* Author: Coraline Ada Ehmke
* Status: Assigned
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: Yukihiro Matsumoto
----------------------------------------
I am the creator of the Contributor Covenant, a code of conduct for Open Source projects. At last count there are over 13,000 projects on Github that have adopted it. This past year saw adoption of Contributor Covenant by a lot of very large, very visible projects, including Rails, Github's Atom text editor, Angular JS, bundler, curl, diaspora, discourse, Eclipse, rspec, shoes, and rvm. The bundler team made code of conduct integration an option in the gem creation workflow, putting it on par with license selection. Many open source language communities have already adopted the code of conduct, including Elixir, Mono, the .NET foundation, F#, and Apple's Swift. RubyTogether also adopted a policy to only fund Ruby projects that had a solid code of conduct in place.

Right now in the PHP community there is a healthy debate about adopting the Contributor Covenant. Since it came from and has been so widely adopted by the Ruby community at large, I think it's time that we consider adopting it for the core Ruby language as well.

Our community prides itself on niceness. What a code of conduct does is define what we mean by nice. It states clearly that we value openness, courtesy, and compassion. That we care about and want contributions from people who may be different from us. That we pledge to respect all contributors regardless of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or other factors. And it makes it clear that we are prepared to follow through on these values with action when and if an incident arises.

I'm asking that we join with the larger Ruby community in supporting the adoption of the Contributor Covenant for the Ruby language. I think that this will be an important step forward and will ensure the continued welcoming and supportive environment around Ruby. You can read the full text of the Contributor Covenant at http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/3/0/ and learn more at http://contributor-covenant.org/. 

Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.


---Files--------------------------------
Screen Shot 2016-01-22 at 6.45.23 PM.png (595 KB)
Ruby_Code_of_Conduct_Numbers.png (119 KB)
Ruby_Code_of_Conduct_Discussion.png (143 KB)


-- 
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/

Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-core-request / ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
<http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-core>