On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 3:48 PM, <shrubby / yopmail.com> wrote:

> Issue #12004 has been updated by ph ph.
>

> Coraline Ada Ehmke wrote:
> > Suggested draft for community guidelines. I've tried to incorporate
> language that other people have suggested without losing any context or
> important criteria.
> >
> > --
> >
> > == Ruby Community Guidelines ==
> >
> > As part of our collective culture we believe that the Ruby community
> should be open and welcoming to everyone, regardless of age, body size,
> disability, culture, ethnicity, gender, gender identity and expression,
> level of experience, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or
> sexual orientation.
>
> What on earth is "gender"  VS "gender identity" VS "gender expression" ?
>

Gender is a personˇÇs biological gender. Gender identity is the gender that
a person identifies as; the medical condition gender dysphoria describes
the situation when the biological gender does not match that of gender
identity. Gender expression is how oneˇÇs gender is expressed visibly.
Someone born female (gender) that identifies as male (gender identity) has
gender dysphoria. They may not dress as or act male (gender expression).

Asking this question is legitimate, because if one does not know anyone who
has gender dysphoria, you wonˇÇt necessarily know these terms.

If english is not the language to be used, I would suggest we switch to
> Japanese. Using a language that the legitimate curator of Ruby understand
> instead would seem appropriate


This statement, however, is out of bounds. The words are easily searched if
you actually wanted to.


> > This document provides community guidelines for a safe, respectful,
> productive, and collaborative place for people engaging with and
> contributing to to the Ruby community. It applies to all collaborative
> spaces and documents, including mailing lists, IRC, submitted patches, big
> reports, and pull requests.
> >
>
> Who said providing a "safe, respectful, productive, and collaborative
> place" was the priority ?
> Who says that those guidelines provide a "safer, respectfuler,
> productiver, and collaborativer place"
> than not having this guidelines ?
>

A large number of people in this thread have said both of these.

> * Participants must ensure that their language and actions are free of
> personal attacks and disparaging personal remarks.
>
> What about "Audience must ensure that their ears only listen to language
> and actions which they
> deem to be free of personnel attacks" ?
>

This is called ˇČblaming the victimˇÉ.


> Ruby is a programming language. There is no specific reason to be taking
> extra care apart from what is
> normally taken. The consensus is given by the law. Any action you will
> take against the law will
> be punished by the law.
>

If only this were true. Harassment is against the law in many countries,
but investigations and enforcement actions are rarely taken largely because
of biases by law enforcementˇ˝and handling online harassment is evenharder
(consider the cases of Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu, and Zo Quinn as
instructive on this matter). It gets even worse with international and
virtual communities like RubyˇÇs. Communities (like RubyˇÇs) are often left
to police themselves. This is one of the reasons people ask for CoCs and
they get support from a lot of people in a community.

> * Participants must agree that the use of sexual imagery, sexual
> language, and sexual
> > advances are not conducive to a professional environment and must be
> avoided.
>
> Again, those points have nothing to do with Ruby, and the various.
> In Europe, breast in public at the beach are not considered sexual.
> Among the victorian society you represent, it is considered so.
> Now Ruby should have an opinion too ?
>

Even in Europe, these things are not considered acceptable in a
*professional context*. Because developing Ruby isˇ˝for at least some
peopleˇ˝a job, putting this sort of wording is perfectly acceptable and
understandable.

On top of that given that the subtle and understandable distinction you
> make yourself of "gender" VS "gender expression" VS "gender other",
> byzantine discussion are guaranteed as to what is sexual and what is not.
>

This is disingenuous.


> And honestly, your opinion on those subject are irrelevant to
> Ruby the language in the first place. Take them with you, and tell them
> to interested people, not to a technical community.
>

SoˇÄwhat happens to people who areˇ˝or want to beˇ˝part of the technical
community, but feel excluded because of people who mock their gender
dysphoria? This means that, despite what you *incorrectly* believe, this
sort of thing *is* a matter for the technical community (because while Ruby
as a language is technical, the community is made of people and we should
work to build people *up* rather than tear them down or allow others to
tear them down).

Should you persist on perturbing this technical community with your
> political ideas, it will be perfectly warranted to take positive action
> unambiguously opposite of the ones you are promoting, in order to
> deincitize you to persist to impose your crazy ideas.
>

In other words, because someone thinks, acts, and feels differently than
*you* (ph ph) do, you have the right to harass them and drive them out of
the community. Right.


> > * Participants must not publish non-public contact information about
> other members of the community, including physical addresses or other
> private information.
> > * Participants who disrupt the collaborative space, or participate in a
> pattern of behaviour which could reasonably be considered harassment will
> not be tolerated.
>
> What about animal cruelty and pedophilia ?
> What makes those subjects unrelated to Ruby less worthy than the other
> subject
> unrelated to Ruby any less worthy ?
>

This discussion is a sideshow.


> > * Anyone asked to stop unacceptable behavior is expected to comply
> immediately.
>
> I ask you to stop your unacceptable behavior.
> Please comply immediately.
>

There is nothing unacceptable about asking for anti-harassment policies,
except in the minds of people who are looking for reasons to enable
harassers.


> > Instances of abusive, harassing, or otherwise unacceptable behavior may
> be reported by sending an email to [INSERT EMAIL ADDRESS]. All complaints
> will be reviewed and investigated and will result in a response that is
> deemed necessary and appropriate to the circumstances. Respondents are
> obligated to maintain confidentiality with regard to the reporter of an
> incident.
> >
>
> Please stop abusing this technical community by polluting it with your
> political ideas.
> Please stop considering you entitled to be able to judge anyone.
> Please be respectful of others, and the collective effort they have put in
> having
> such a wonderful language.
> Please be humble enough to not think they were waiting for you to start
> respecting other.
>

There are enough peopleˇ˝including Matzˇ˝who think that *a* Code of Conduct
is a good thing. Therefore, the only abuser in the last couple of posts is
you.


> > We believe that by thoughtfully abiding by these community guidelines,
> we help Ruby fulfill its promise to make people happy and to put the needs
> of the community first.
>


> You believe many things that the rest of the world does not believe
>

This is true. That does not mean that we, as a community, shouldnˇÇtstrive
to be better than we are or that we, as a community, shouldnˇÇt strive to be
nicer. Your post, just now, is neither nice nor better. Coraline is as much
a part of this community as you are, and your treatment of her is
disappointing.

-a
-- 
Austin Ziegler  halostatue / gmail.com  austin / halostatue.ca
http://www.halostatue.ca/  http://twitter.com/halostatue
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