Issue #12004 has been updated by Robert Klemme.


David Celis wrote:
> Robert Klemme wrote:

> > Coraline Ada Ehmke wrote:

> > * I do not see that we actually have an issue with "non niceness".
> 
> Not seeing a problem doesn't mean it's not there.

But it also does not mean it *is* there.  Can someone please point me to some examples of real issues our community has that are addressed by the suggested CoCs?

> I feel that many comments made in this thread show "non niceness". But like myself and others have said, this is not about "non niceness", this is about an avenue to dealing with real harassment if and when it happens.

As others have pointed out already, there are laws for that.  So wouldn't a CoC be just stating "we abide by the law"?

> > * Some people seem to believe that having a CoC solves issues - which is nonsense of course.
> 
> It's not nonsense. I have seen CoCs solve issues. The Portland Ruby community has a code of conduct and it hasn't had to be used often, but it has been used to solve several issues that community members have come to us with.

Maybe I did not make my point very clear: the existence of a CoC (or a law for that matter) does not solve *any* problem - it is people acting who solve problems - by abiding by the rules or enforcing them.  I guess you can find a law in every country that is ineffective, because it is not enforced or otherwise ignored.

> > * A CoC will encourage some bad, unnecessary or unwanted behaviors:
> >   * judging and policing of others pointing to the "law"

> Nobody is going to be judging or policing. People just wanna be a part of Ruby without being afraid to show themselves for who they are.

I think you are being very optimistic here.  I think the video that Andrew Vit referred to shows one example of the type of behavior I was referring to.

> > * We are grown ups and every grown up should know how to behave.  Those who are not, will remove themselves from the community by their behavior or be removed by the community - regardless whether a CoC exists or not.
> 
> Being a grownup doesn't mean one knows how to behave.

OK, there *I* am being optimistic: for me the definition of "grown up" includes civilized manners. :-)

> And while yes, a CoC is not required to remove people from the community for awful behavior, it is important to be able to state why someone was removed and why that behavior was awful.

And you cannot express that without reference to a CoC?  What about laws or the judgement of community moderators?  Btw. "awful" is not a good legal category, it is just too subjective and imprecise.

> It's also important to state how someone could be welcomed back if they choose to work hard at returning.

That seems to be an important point missing from the suggested CoC.

----

Unrelated to David's comment: I believe we can see a partition forming among commenters here between "in favor of" and "against".  That in itself is an unfortunate effect.  If bringing up the topic of a CoC does not solve problems our community really has, then we all have lost.

**Please let us keep this discussion as civilized as it has been for most parts to not cause unnecessary harm!  Thank you!**

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Misc #12004: Code of Conduct
https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004#change-56584

* Author: Coraline Ada Ehmke
* Status: Assigned
* Priority: Normal
* Assignee: Yukihiro Matsumoto
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I am the creator of the Contributor Covenant, a code of conduct for Open Source projects. At last count there are over 13,000 projects on Github that have adopted it. This past year saw adoption of Contributor Covenant by a lot of very large, very visible projects, including Rails, Github's Atom text editor, Angular JS, bundler, curl, diaspora, discourse, Eclipse, rspec, shoes, and rvm. The bundler team made code of conduct integration an option in the gem creation workflow, putting it on par with license selection. Many open source language communities have already adopted the code of conduct, including Elixir, Mono, the .NET foundation, F#, and Apple's Swift. RubyTogether also adopted a policy to only fund Ruby projects that had a solid code of conduct in place.

Right now in the PHP community there is a healthy debate about adopting the Contributor Covenant. Since it came from and has been so widely adopted by the Ruby community at large, I think it's time that we consider adopting it for the core Ruby language as well.

Our community prides itself on niceness. What a code of conduct does is define what we mean by nice. It states clearly that we value openness, courtesy, and compassion. That we care about and want contributions from people who may be different from us. That we pledge to respect all contributors regardless of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or other factors. And it makes it clear that we are prepared to follow through on these values with action when and if an incident arises.

I'm asking that we join with the larger Ruby community in supporting the adoption of the Contributor Covenant for the Ruby language. I think that this will be an important step forward and will ensure the continued welcoming and supportive environment around Ruby. You can read the full text of the Contributor Covenant at http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/3/0/ and learn more at http://contributor-covenant.org/. 

Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.


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