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Matz, I respectfully disagree. Enforcement should be written in a CoC to be
meaningful and effective. Inasmuch as we want a CoC, we want this for a
couple of reasons (IMO):

1. To signal that we, the Ruby community as a whole and the core
contributors to Ruby specifically, consider certain behaviours
unacceptable, especially those involving harassment of any kind and
marginalizing behaviour;
2. To signal that we, the Ruby community as a whole and the core
contributors to Ruby specifically, are marking the official spaces for Ruby
(ruby-core, ruby-talk and other official mailing lists; the Redmine
instance for issues with Ruby and related projects; the ruby/ruby Github
repo; etc.) as *safe spaces* where people can be assured that harassment
will not be tolerated.

I also disagree that banning is meaningless; there may be little that can
be done against determined attackers who can repeatedly create new
accounts, etc., but as a *signal*, temporary and/or permanent banning of
particular personae can be very useful.

This isn to say that I think that signaling is the *only* reason to do
these, but that the signals themselves are important because it will
encourage greater participation by people who find themselves otherwise
intimidated.

You will choose as you believe you should, but I strongly encourage you to
keep some enforcement for when the rules/guidelines are broken, because
they will otherwise be seen as empty promises.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:22 AM, <matz / ruby-lang.org> wrote:

> Issue #12004 has been updated by Yukihiro Matsumoto.
>
>
> David Celis wrote:
> > This is an unfortunate conundrum, then. A code of conduct should be
> treated similarly to a law. If there aren't repercussions for violating it,
> and if it's not enforced, it's ultimately meaningless. The Ruby maintainers
> and community need to be willing to uphold a commitment to this sort of
> code of conduct, IMO
>
> But what kind of enforcement we can do? As I said before, banning is
> meaningless (in our community). Only we can do is reject/remove/edit
> issues/pages/conversations with problems, but I don't think it needs to be
> written in CoC.
>
> Matz.
>
> ----------------------------------------
> Misc #12004: Code of Conduct
> https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004#change-56345
>
> * Author: Coraline Ada Ehmke
> * Status: Assigned
> * Priority: Normal
> * Assignee: Yukihiro Matsumoto
> ----------------------------------------
> I am the creator of the Contributor Covenant, a code of conduct for Open
> Source projects. At last count there are over 13,000 projects on Github
> that have adopted it. This past year saw adoption of Contributor Covenant
> by a lot of very large, very visible projects, including Rails, Github's
> Atom text editor, Angular JS, bundler, curl, diaspora, discourse, Eclipse,
> rspec, shoes, and rvm. The bundler team made code of conduct integration an
> option in the gem creation workflow, putting it on par with license
> selection. Many open source language communities have already adopted the
> code of conduct, including Elixir, Mono, the .NET foundation, F#, and
> Apple's Swift. RubyTogether also adopted a policy to only fund Ruby
> projects that had a solid code of conduct in place.
>
> Right now in the PHP community there is a healthy debate about adopting
> the Contributor Covenant. Since it came from and has been so widely adopted
> by the Ruby community at large, I think it's time that we consider adopting
> it for the core Ruby language as well.
>
> Our community prides itself on niceness. What a code of conduct does is
> define what we mean by nice. It states clearly that we value openness,
> courtesy, and compassion. That we care about and want contributions from
> people who may be different from us. That we pledge to respect all
> contributors regardless of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or other
> factors. And it makes it clear that we are prepared to follow through on
> these values with action when and if an incident arises.
>
> I'm asking that we join with the larger Ruby community in supporting the
> adoption of the Contributor Covenant for the Ruby language. I think that
> this will be an important step forward and will ensure the continued
> welcoming and supportive environment around Ruby. You can read the full
> text of the Contributor Covenant at
> http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/3/0/ and learn more at
> http://contributor-covenant.org/.
>
> Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
>
>
>
>
> --
> https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/
>
> Unsubscribe: <mailto:ruby-core-request / ruby-lang.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> <http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/ruby-core>
>



-- 
Austin Ziegler halostatue / gmail.com austin / halostatue.ca
http://www.halostatue.ca/ http://twitter.com/halostatue

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<div dir="ltr">Matz, I respectfully disagree. Enforcement should be written in a CoC to be meaningful and effective. Inasmuch as we want a CoC, we want this for a couple of reasons (IMO):<div><br></div><div>1. To signal that we, the Ruby community as a whole and the core contributors to Ruby specifically, consider certain behaviours unacceptable, especially those involving harassment of any kind and marginalizing behaviour;</div><div>2. To signal that we, the Ruby community as a whole and the core contributors to Rubypecifically, are marking the official spaces for Ruby (ruby-core, ruby-talk and other official mailing lists; the Redmine instance for issues with Ruby and related projects; the ruby/ruby Github repo; etc.) as *safe spaces*here people can be assured that harassment will not be tolerated.</div><div><br></div><div>I also disagree that banning is meaningless; there may beittle that can be done against determined attackers who can repeatedly create new accounts, etc., but as a *signal*, temporary and/or permanent banning of particular personae can be very useful.</div><div><br></div><div>This isn to say that I think that signaling is the *only* reason to do these, but that the signals themselves are important because it will encourage greater participation by people who find themselves otherwise intimidated.</div><div><br></div><div>You will choose as you believe you should, but I strongly encourage you to keep some enforcement for when the rules/guidelines are broken, because they will otherwise be seen as empty promises.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:22 AM,  <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:matz / ruby-lang.org" target="_blank">matz / ruby-lang.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Issue #12004 has been updated by Yukihiro Matsumoto.<br>
<span class=""><br>
<br>
David Celis wrote:<br>
&gt; This is an unfortunate conundrum, then. A code of conduct should be treated similarly to a law. If there aren&#39;t repercussions for violating it, and if it&#39;s not enforced, it&#39;s ultimately meaningless. The Ruby maintainers and community need to be willing to uphold a commitment to thisort of code of conduct, IMO<br>
<br>
</span>But what kind of enforcement we can do? As I said before, banning iseaningless (in our community). Only we can do is reject/remove/edit issues/pages/conversations with problems, but I don&#39;t think it needs to be written in CoC.<br>
<br>
Matz.<br>
<span class=""><br>
----------------------------------------<br>
Misc #12004: Code of Conduct<br>
</span><a href="https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004#change-56345" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004#change-56345</a><br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
* Author: Coraline Ada Ehmke<br>
* Status: Assigned<br>
* Priority: Normal<br>
* Assignee: Yukihiro Matsumoto<br>
----------------------------------------<br>
I am the creator of the Contributor Covenant, a code of conduct for Open Source projects. At last count there are over 13,000 projects on Github that have adopted it. This past year saw adoption of Contributor Covenant by a lot of very large, very visible projects, including Rails, Github&#39;s Atomext editor, Angular JS, bundler, curl, diaspora, discourse, Eclipse, rspec, shoes, and rvm. The bundler team made code of conduct integration an option in the gem creation workflow, putting it on par with license selection.any open source language communities have already adopted the code of conduct, including Elixir, Mono, the .NET foundation, F#, and Apple&#39;s Swift. RubyTogether also adopted a policy to only fund Ruby projects that had aolid code of conduct in place.<br>
<br>
Right now in the PHP community there is a healthy debate about adopting theontributor Covenant. Since it came from and has been so widely adopted byhe Ruby community at large, I think it&#39;s time that we consider adopting it for the core Ruby language as well.<br>
<br>
Our community prides itself on niceness. What a code of conduct does is define what we mean by nice. It states clearly that we value openness, courtesy, and compassion. That we care about and want contributions from people who may be different from us. That we pledge to respect all contributors regardless of their race, gender, sexual orientation, or other factors. And it makes it clear that we are prepared to follow through on these values with action when and if an incident arises.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m asking that we join with the larger Ruby community in supporting the adoption of the Contributor Covenant for the Ruby language. I think that this will be an important step forward and will ensure the continued welcoming and supportive environment around Ruby. You can read the full text of the Contributor Covenant at <a href="http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/3/0/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/3/0/</a> and learn more at <a href="http://contributor-covenant.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://contributor-covenant.org/</a>.<br>
<br>
Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
<a href="https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/</a><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature">Austin Ziegler <a href="mailto:halostatue / gmail.com" target="_blank">halostatue / gmail.com</a> <a href="mailto:austin / halostatue.ca" target="_blank">austin / halostatue.ca</a><br><a href="http://www.halostatue.ca/" target="_blank">http://www.halostatue.ca/</a> <a href="http://twitter.com/halostatue" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/halostatue</a></div>
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