As the lead for one of the most dependency-heavy packages on RubyGems, I'd just like to say that its totally solveable to create packages that work both in gems and non-gems form. Rails is always released as both gems and as a tgz package. With all due respect to the repackagers of the world, I share Austin's ambivilence about the desire to "upgrade" living projects in order for them to fit under some repackaging scheme. From my experience dealing with the consequences, it only brings on another world of pain when you have multiple packaging schemes layered on top. Anyway, I must admit that I view the reservations to having RubyGems in the core as somewhat academic and with few practical implications. That's not to say that RG can't improve, or even that it shouldn't fix some outstanding issues before imminent inclusion, just that I dread _not_ having RG in the core much more than dealing with any of its current "flaws". RubyGems is in my mind instrumental in making Ruby available to a much larger audience in a much more pleasant fashion. I dream of the day where "gem install rails" is a command that can be executed with a fresh install of Ruby on any system. Holding back that ease of use is definitely something that should be weighed against concerns over implementation. While popularity is no overriding deciding factor, I do believe that its worthy to note that almost half a million Rails-related gems have been shipped over the counter since Rails went on that (110K for the Rails package itself). In comparison, the tgz version has "only" seen ~19K downloads. Thus, I strongly recommend that the core team decides to include RubyGems as soon as possible. It has long since proved itself by its extended use and usefulness. -- David Heinemeier Hansson http://www.loudthinking.com -- Broadcasting Brain http://www.basecamphq.com -- Online project management http://www.backpackit.com -- Personal information manager http://www.rubyonrails.com -- Web-application framework